Defending your boat (pirates, angry mobs of fisherman etc)

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Looking at it another way... if you think that gun proliferation in the US has resulted in a lower crime rate there...then that would imply that the US crime rate would be INSANELY Venezuela-grade high otherwise, yes? Personally, I don't think that Americans in general are so criminally-inclined that only concealed carry will keep them in check.

Interesting statistic in an article posted in Dec 2021 by NRA-ILA. Keep in mind the total population of the US is roughly 330 million.

"The violent crime rate has decreased 52% from the 1991 all-time high. Americans have acquired more than 215 million new firearms in the same time period – more than doubling the number of privately-owned firearms in the United States."

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Interesting statistic in an article posted in Dec 2021 by NRA-ILA. Keep in mind the total population of the US is roughly 330 million.

"The violent crime rate has decreased 52% from the 1991 all-time high. Americans have acquired more than 215 million new firearms in the same time period – more than doubling the number of privately-owned firearms in the United States."

Ok, but even so, the US is still middling globally in overall crime, and is still higher than most of the world in homicides per capita. There is no compelling evidence to say that unrestricted gun ownership makes the US safer or has less crime than other industrialized countries.

It is what it is, I know. If you want a gun, you can get one. But let's not ascribe magickal properties to their proliferation.

[rickwest]

End of year 2015 Papa New Guinea friend of mine sailing near the main island north side were boarded and robbed of everything, everything.
I crossed the same area soon after them but stayed 30 to 50 miles off shore along small island keeping my distance from mainland pirates
My plan was always (I had no guns) I have a huge fire extinguisher and many small ones, pepper spray, spear gun, hand bladed weapons also I spider web the aft of my boat with all my spare line (had a small catamaran with two stairways)
I felt I could stave off 4 to 6 from boarding my boat , nothing ever happen on my Pacific crossing and my run to Malaysia mainland Boreo is also noted as being a risk, depending on where you anchor.
I never got the opportunity to test my theory a full blast from a 20 lb fire extinguisher down wind into the faces of a boarding party.
All the fishermen I encounter some 250 miles off shore (Filipino fishermen) only wanted cigarettes and alcohol to trade for fish.
I always keep inform of local areas as I moved along, where to anchor off and where not.
Life has risks, the couple that was robbed off PNG were unharmed and went on there way with only a compass to navigate. They told me of there ordeal when we met up in Palawi
All world travel has risks
Be safe do the homework

[Turtle Blues]

So 16 pages into this stimulating esoteric discussion I am just cruising the Chesapeake viewing the issue close to home. In port in Baltimore the Marinas caution you to go to the restaurants at the City dock by water taxi or board a land taxi / Uber inside their security gate. Do not travel on foot.
Service providers will not work on your boat unless they are assured secure off street parking.
Washington DC, after spending over 1B$ redeveloping the waterfront, people are regularly robbed outside the walls of the navy yard which actually have the unintended consequence of making the area more isolated and pedestrians vulnerable.
New York Harbor is being plagued with off the boat thefts by an identified group that the authorities are incapable of removing.
Statistically I think the probability of a problem is much higher at home.
Can someone weigh in from Chicago?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

* * *

Well, as we keep seeing in this thread, its a topic rife with misinformation, and it's clearly a topic dominated by strong political feelings (pro or con) which seem to obscure the facts... and political debates aren't welcome on CF?

I haven't read a lot of misinformation or obscuring of facts, only opinions which are sometimes challenged, the back & forth of healthy, informative discussion. There is, however, a recent effort to divert attention to US crime/gun stats which instigates politics and the very obfuscation you purport to find objectionable. This is blatantly (purposely?) off-topic and is sure to invite mod intervention. Please don't continue trying to stymie the discussion because of your personal beliefs.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

So 16 pages into this stimulating esoteric discussion I am just cruising the Chesapeake viewing the issue close to home. In port in Baltimore the Marinas caution you to go to the restaurants at the City dock by water taxi or board a land taxi / Uber inside their security gate. Do not travel on foot.
Service providers will not work on your boat unless they are assured secure off street parking.
Washington DC, after spending over 1B$ redeveloping the waterfront, people are regularly robbed outside the walls of the navy yard which actually have the unintended consequence of making the area more isolated and pedestrians vulnerable.
New York Harbor is being plagued with off the boat thefts by an identified group that the authorities are incapable of removing.
Statistically I think the probability of a problem is much higher at home.
Can someone weigh in from Chicago?

How about the Chicago waterfront/marinas/etc.?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Turtle Blues

So 16 pages into this stimulating esoteric discussion I am just cruising the Chesapeake viewing the issue close to home. In port in Baltimore the Marinas caution you to go to the restaurants at the City dock by water taxi or board a land taxi / Uber inside their security gate. Do not travel on foot.
Service providers will not work on your boat unless they are assured secure off street parking.
Washington DC, after spending over 1B$ redeveloping the waterfront, people are regularly robbed outside the walls of the navy yard which actually have the unintended consequence of making the area more isolated and pedestrians vulnerable.
New York Harbor is being plagued with off the boat thefts by an identified group that the authorities are incapable of removing.
Statistically I think the probability of a problem is much higher at home.
Can someone weigh in from Chicago?

Links about NY Harbor?

Given the geography of the harbor it’s pretty hard to imagine. It’s almost entirely commercial.

There are a couple of new spots on the Brooklyn side of the East River. There is the Gowanus Canal. But that would just be people breaking into the marinas.

[Exile]

A couple of non-lethal but ultimately effective responses I heard about from the bad 'ol cocaine running "Miami Vice" days of the 70's and early 80's. This is when there were well-known threats to pleasure boats in and around the Fla. Straights & Bahamas.

1. A singlehander being approached by bad guys with guns in fast boats responded by repeatedly going from the cockpit to below, each time returning to the cockpit wearing a different colored shirt. Made it appear as if more crew onboard than really was. Whether this was the reason or not, the bad guys opted to back off.

2. A lightly crewed sailboat approached by bad guys with guns in fast boats. Skipper broadcast a Mayday on 16, stating to the Coast Guard that he had a lot of crew onboard, that they all had guns pointed out open portlights down below, and that he thought he had enough guns & ammo to hold them off until the Coasties could respond. None of this was true but bad guys were likely monitoring 16 and opted to back off.

I never verified at the time but none of it is inconsistent with the violence over cocaine trafficking that was going on at the time. Sailboats in particular were soft targets and being pirated and turned into innocent looking trafficking vessels. A long time ago, of course, but thought the responses were clever & courageous, with nobody harmed in carrying them out. Take them for whatever you think they're worth.

[Turtle Blues]

It was posted, maybe here?, couple of weeks ago. Local news talking to the Harbor Master. Raft up of derelict boats up one of the tributaries chronically robbing unattended boats.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Exile

There is, however, a recent effort to divert attention to US crime/gun stats which instigates politics and the very obfuscation you purport to find objectionable. This is blatantly (purposely?) off-topic and is sure to invite mod intervention.

Yes there was. Didn't hear from you then, no.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Yes there was. Didn't hear from you then, no.

The post you cite was responding to the friendly debate/discussion over whether one should ever use a firearm to merely deter or rather to kill. This is a frequent topic in firearms training, and obviously a critical one to get a handle on. Whichever view is "correct," the reality is there are many more incidents -- on land and probably at sea -- where deterrence has worked regardless of the intent. This is supported by the land-based stats presented in the post, and has nothing to do with any nexus between concealed carry permits and the rate of violent crime in any given area of the US or elsewhere. THAT is clearly off-topic.

[stavok]

Originally Posted by rickwest

End of year 2015 Papa New Guinea friend of mine sailing near the main island north side were boarded and robbed of everything, everything.
I crossed the same area soon after them but stayed 30 to 50 miles off shore along small island keeping my distance from mainland pirates
My plan was always (I had no guns) I have a huge fire extinguisher and many small ones, pepper spray, spear gun, hand bladed weapons also I spider web the aft of my boat with all my spare line (had a small catamaran with two stairways)
I felt I could stave off 4 to 6 from boarding my boat , nothing ever happen on my Pacific crossing and my run to Malaysia mainland Boreo is also noted as being a risk, depending on where you anchor.
I never got the opportunity to test my theory a full blast from a 20 lb fire extinguisher down wind into the faces of a boarding party.
All the fishermen I encounter some 250 miles off shore (Filipino fishermen) only wanted cigarettes and alcohol to trade for fish.
I always keep inform of local areas as I moved along, where to anchor off and where not.
Life has risks, the couple that was robbed off PNG were unharmed and went on there way with only a compass to navigate. They told me of there ordeal when we met up in Palawi
All world travel has risks
Be safe do the homework

Finally! Let's move on from the gun debate and discuss less than lethal responses as the OP suggested. Does anyone have real world experiences repelling boarding with flare guns, fully automatic bb guns, paint-ball guns, bear spray, fire extinguishers, bright lights, air horns, throwing dollar bills into the water, giant slingshots and poop balloons, cross-bow, CS paint balls and glass balls, propeller fouling nets, shurikens, roman candles, etc, etc.... ?

There has to be something things that are better than nothing and between an actual firearm.