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Old 02-12-2019, 15:04   #1216
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by BlueHeeler View Post
Skeptical Science has an open forum. Unlike others on this particular site I certainly donít regard myself as an expert. What I disagree with however is ridiculous opinions put across as facts. It would be interesting to see Stu log into SS forum and show us how he wipes the floor with all these alarmist arguments and so called experts. He could even post a link to his debates right here just to prove his worth so to speak.
It's not some sort of contest or sporting event, but an exchange of ideas. I have no problem respecting your opinions on the subject, but if they're solely based on "facts" you're reading from Skeptical Science then there's a good chance they're not well informed. Surely you can find less biased sources of information on the subject. I have no doubt you'll continue to hold the same opinions but will be that much better informed about the facts supporting them.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:07   #1217
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
That kind of goes to the heart of the question.


System speed is nirvana, but as you approach system speed, I mean even to half of system speed, your options surely expand exponentially. By "options" I mean your ability to maneuver effectively to stay out of really bad weather.



I wonder what a good crew could have done on a passage like that in an Atlantic 57, a whole ton more performance than an Outremer 45?


With the very light displacement and very thin hulls, the A57 will probably have basically no hull speed, but be limited by motion comfort in any kind of sea state. I would think that in wind like LV have just had you could fairly easily maintain 220 -- 250 mile days with occasional 300 mile days (just like today I easily do 180 mile days day in and day out, with regular 200 mile days). 220-250 mile days has got to totally change the map, dynamically speaking, no?



The Swan 90 I used to sail on had performance like that. I dropped off the crew before they crossed the Pacific, but they averaged something like 230 miles/day all the way across the Pacific Ocean from Cabos to Australia.
I did a little research on the Atlantic 57. Very interesting particularly the forward control cockpit aft of the mast and forward of the cabin. I like that. I prefer the interiors of the Outremer. Each to their own.

However, your claims relative to performance are not substantiated on their website.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:09   #1218
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueHeeler View Post
Skeptical Science has an open forum. Unlike others on this particular site I certainly donít regard myself as an expert. What I disagree with however is ridiculous opinions put across as facts. It would be interesting to see Stu log into SS forum and show us how he wipes the floor with all these alarmist arguments and so called experts. He could even post a link to his debates right here just to prove his worth so to speak.

Open? ROTFLMAO,


Cooke & Co are renowned for deleting any comments they disagree with. It is impossible to have any sort of reasoned debate on that site.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:20   #1219
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by jzk View Post
She is telling people that ecosystems are collapsing and a mass extinction event is underway. Currently, the amount of children that live past age 10 is directly proportional to fossil fuel use. Fossil fuel is not just a money making scheme for a segment of society, but rather how most of society eats and moves around.

A super cool trip for a kid to experience. But she had Nikki fly back from Europe to join the team cancelling out any "benefit" from her not flying. Other than promoting LV that is.
So? Eco systems are collapsing.

Global warming is directly proportional to fossil fuel use!

You forgot to mention that Nikki bought "Carbon offsets" that not many of us bother with.

That children are suffering trauma because they are worried about the future of the planet is not Greta's fault.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:21   #1220
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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We are definitely becoming very polarized, in this debate as well as in politics. The middle ground seems to have disappeared and we're just shouting at each other from a distance and doing very little listening. A great pity since, whether we like it or not, we have some tremendously complex problems to solve. And something will ultimately happen in terms of a 'solution', just not sure if it will be very much to our liking.
That's a really good point.
I hope we can somehow reverse this polarizing trend and have these important discussions without the prerequisite to pick a side- so few open minds any more.
It would seem that there are even global success stories from which to borrow hope...
Most of the industrial world came together last century to address a vanishing ozone layer. Eliminating CFCs sounds easy now, but it took a lot of cooperation and innnovation.
The huge global success story of dwindling extreme poverty gets lost in wealth-inequality complaints. Google it. It's an amazingly better world now than years past in many respects.

Humans can certainly solve problems when they are not shouting at each other, and when they focus on a problem. The upcoming COP25 where Greta is going will have a gender workshop, indigenous peoples talks, attempts to revamp the failed carbon credits exchange, and a tally of the trillions needed.
Focus, people.
How many trillions would it take to finally create a useable fusion reactor to eliminate fossil fuel burning forever? One?
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:27   #1221
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
... Wouldn't a message appealing to the vast middle who are genuinely concerned about CC, but don't want to tear down the socioeconomic system, have more resonance? ...
Probably. It’s called re-framing, as noted in my post #1163, and studied by Voelkel & Willer, below.
“Resolving the Progressive Paradox: Conservative Value Framing of Progressive Economic Policies Increases Candidate Support” ~ by Jan Gerrit Voelkel & Robb Willer
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3385818
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:44   #1222
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Probably. Itís called re-framing, as noted in my post #1163, and studied by Voelkel & Willer, below.
ďResolving the Progressive Paradox: Conservative Value Framing of Progressive Economic Policies Increases Candidate SupportĒ ~ by Jan Gerrit Voelkel & Robb Willer
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3385818
I didn't read this one, but it looks like an effort to get more ideologically extreme candidates elected to office which further polarizes people, thereby making the majority of them less inclined to support issues which are identified as worthwhile by the opposing "tribe." Especially problematic on issues like CC which few really understand, and so are more inclined not to question like-minded opinion. But if the Greta faction is correct and CC really is the most critical issue of our time, then this approach is completely counterproductive. It only alienates the large numbers of people society needs to make a difference.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:51   #1223
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
I believe you, posting as SMJ were just banned on Sailnet for these kinds of posts.



You sound a lot like angry Greta. Many tend to stop listening when you get like this.


I think you are confused. I was given a 24 hour ban on Sailnet for trolling, Iím guessing trolling on Sailnet means you disagree with the opinions of a moderator and a few of the 15 people that contribute regularly.
My ban is up in 1:12 minutes and then I will make sure to ask the mods on sailnet how you were privy to this information and whether itís in good taste to post this on a competitive forum.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:59   #1224
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
You forgot to mention that Nikki bought "Carbon offsets" that not many of us bother with.
Love that the wealthy can afford to purchase the "right" to pollute.
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:07   #1225
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by cyan View Post
That's a really good point.
I hope we can somehow reverse this polarizing trend and have these important discussions without the prerequisite to pick a side- so few open minds any more.
It would seem that there are even global success stories from which to borrow hope...
Most of the industrial world came together last century to address a vanishing ozone layer. Eliminating CFCs sounds easy now, but it took a lot of cooperation and innnovation.
The huge global success story of dwindling extreme poverty gets lost in wealth-inequality complaints. Google it. It's an amazingly better world now than years past in many respects.

Humans can certainly solve problems when they are not shouting at each other, and when they focus on a problem. The upcoming COP25 where Greta is going will have a gender workshop, indigenous peoples talks, attempts to revamp the failed carbon credits exchange, and a tally of the trillions needed.
Focus, people.
How many trillions would it take to finally create a useable fusion reactor to eliminate fossil fuel burning forever? One?


Not trying to be sarcastic but look up how well that CFC reduction thing is doing. Seems since 2013 it hasnít been working so well.
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:10   #1226
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

What might an interesting is to see exactly where the money from these carbon offsets really end up.
Sort of similar to finding out how much money you give to a relief agency actually goes to relief, and how much to salaries etc.
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:14   #1227
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

From just a quick look it would seem that there is quite a bit of money to be made that way, seems they are bought and sold by banks and the I guess you might call it the commission fee is quite high.
I assume this is a good reliable source?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8378592.stm
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:21   #1228
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Complete bollocks.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oes-or-humans/

Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by todayís human endeavors.
Look into how it's all measured.

That is bollocks.

More like buttocks but by all means keep believing the B.S.

Besides, plants love c02.

So, the planet gets warmer and there's more c02... And, so what?

The ice will melt!?! So what?

The people will drown!!!

So...What?

We'll have a warmer greener Earth!

OMG Sacrilege!!!

If you take anyone's word for anything you're a fool.

Debate is good but lets not kid ourselves about politics, money and motivation.

Had Al Gore not attempted to create a Cap and Trade scheme perhaps you would still have my attention however he did and so I'm not just a sceptic nor a denier, I am fully aware that it is nothing but a scam for your and my money, period.

So all the duped do gooders are simply virtue signalling idiots who have no sense what so ever and that my friend includes you.
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:26   #1229
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Not trying to be sarcastic but look up how well that CFC reduction thing is doing. Seems since 2013 it hasnít been working so well.

Yep - China Seems didn't read the memo and have been using it by the truck load in the creation of insulation and other things......
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Old 02-12-2019, 16:55   #1230
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
So? Eco systems are collapsing.

Global warming is directly proportional to fossil fuel use!

You forgot to mention that Nikki bought "Carbon offsets" that not many of us bother with.

That children are suffering trauma because they are worried about the future of the planet is not Greta's fault.
"...Nikki bought carbon offsets..."

Such delusion. The whole concept of carbon offsets is ridiculous.

Just another bunch of horse hockey presented as justification for getting on a plane or into an automobile.

Just stop if you're really so concerned yet, crickets.

The very idea that I would pay some multi national gruppe for the right to get on a plane to offset my use of said fuel in said aircraft and fly as a so called concerned citizen of the planet is in itself proof of the hypocrisy involved with Leftist Idiocracy.

Just incredible, really.

I'm supposed to believe in this hokum!?!

Laughable at best.😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
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