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Old 02-12-2019, 13:43   #1201
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Cherod View Post
but that seems to be your problem,, you talk out of the wrong end ,, and it sound like ,, ****
I believe you, posting as SMJ were just banned on Sailnet for these kinds of posts.

You sound a lot like angry Greta. Many tend to stop listening when you get like this.
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:45   #1202
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Anyone quoting SS as a source and talking about "real facts" immediately falls into the "blinkered alarmist with no scientific comprehension" bin.
The problem is the poster probably and very sincerely believes they are "real facts." Yet another example of the profound influence of biased media sources on public opinion.
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:49   #1203
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Anyone quoting SS as a source and talking about "real facts" immediately falls into the "blinkered alarmist with no scientific comprehension" bin.
Please enlighten us Stu. Where is your source of real facts in the realm of climate science and what is your level of scientific comprehension other than smart arse comments and silly little emojis?
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:52   #1204
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by cyan View Post
Finding "a solution to suit us all" is certainly a noble opening to an honest discussion with open minds. However, when one first collects bunches of convenient outrage items (racism, colonialism, pick your gripe...) and mixes them in with one's primary cause... well, it's simply a recipe for eye-rolling. Noise. The primary cause suffers as a result. The conversation stops.
Strongly suggesting that any sort of further civil debate or rational discussion is not only not welcomed but an invitation for further conversation-stopping "outrage" items on the ever-expanding list. People just repeating talking points from their favorite outlet as opposed to thinking for themselves.
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:54   #1205
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Please enlighten us Stu. Where is your source of real facts in the realm of climate science and what is your level of scientific comprehension other than smart arse comments and silly little emojis?
This one's almost as good as someone's comment accusing atoll of being a "couch sailor."
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:55   #1206
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I wonder what a good crew could have done on a passage like that in an Atlantic 57, a whole ton more performance than an Outremer 45?
I think a more interesting question would be what could a really good full crew have accomplished on an Outremer 45?

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Who's reality? As Gord's recent post ably pointed out, reality is all too often in the eye of the beholder. Reality should always be questioned, not blindly adhered to.
I submit that the underlying problem is the confusion many people have between fact and opinion.

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I'm not convinced cats are better at crossing oceans not because they are unsafe but because they are not as comfortable as a well designed moderate displacement mono in typical offshore conditions.
I tend to agree. The closer periods and coupling of roll and pitch are disconcerting to me. Bridge deck slamming can be really offputting. I'm still waiting for a dual-gimballed cooker for an offshore catamaran. Fiddles.
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:55   #1207
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

"In post #1173:


"There were good reasons to choose someone else - for example, the fact that I had to fly was not ideal considering what the trip represented, even though I did buy carbon offsets."


So in effect, the plane DIDN'T produce any carbon. Hoo boy.


This is like telling the priest you sinned, but it's perfectly OK because you put money in the church box.
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Old 02-12-2019, 13:59   #1208
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Strongly suggesting that any sort of further civil debate or rational discussion is not only not welcomed but an invitation for further conversation-stopping "outrage" items on the ever-expanding list. People just repeating talking points from their favorite outlet as opposed to thinking for themselves.
We are definitely becoming very polarized, in this debate as well as in politics. The middle ground seems to have disappeared and we're just shouting at each other from a distance and doing very little listening. A great pity since, whether we like it or not, we have some tremendously complex problems to solve. And something will ultimately happen in terms of a 'solution', just not sure if it will be very much to our liking.
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:27   #1209
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pirate Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherod View Post
time you have to grow up,, open your ears ,, close your ***** ,,, it is nothing about the people ,, how often do you have to be told ,, it is the gesture , it is the publicity for the cause !! ,, but no you wont be told,, wont listen ,, !! i have been at work all day not sitting about on the key board,, but many others have been trying to explain to those who will not listen ,,, arrgh ,, sighhh
PS actually i could have saved my self the effort and just suggest that you read Nikkis latest message , in it she explains in great length just what the trip is all about, had i been been sitting here all day i would have read it sooner,,,, enjoy . even if it is not what you want to hear !!
Why don't you read a whole post..
Which part of ITS FOR PUBLICITY I posted did not enter your consciousness..
That is what its all about.. but your fragile little ego is getting into a strop about imagined slights.
You and others can kiss the ground and point your arses to the air all you want.. I will stick with the reality, its a bog standard nothing special no big deal Transat.
People were walking this Climate/Pollution path when Greta was an egg being assaulted by a sperm but it was not fashionable back then.. check it out.
Read.. ABSORB.. then comment.
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:30   #1210
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by HeinSdL View Post
We are definitely becoming very polarized, in this debate as well as in politics. The middle ground seems to have disappeared and we're just shouting at each other from a distance and doing very little listening. A great pity since, whether we like it or not, we have some tremendously complex problems to solve. And something will ultimately happen in terms of a 'solution', just not sure if it will be very much to our liking.
spoken like a true swiss,one of the few european countries that is not part of the EU,but banks most of the hidden wealth of europe whilst sitting at the top of a mountain.....with an armed population unlike the rest of europe that gave up their firearms .

pot,kettle,black........
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:32   #1211
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Exile View Post
This one's almost as good as someone's comment accusing atoll of being a "couch sailor."
Skeptical Science has an open forum. Unlike others on this particular site I certainly donít regard myself as an expert. What I disagree with however is ridiculous opinions put across as facts. It would be interesting to see Stu log into SS forum and show us how he wipes the floor with all these alarmist arguments and so called experts. He could even post a link to his debates right here just to prove his worth so to speak.
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:37   #1212
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

What a fantastic and educational topic this has been. The inherent seamanship displayed and shared has Iím sure opened many eyes.
As for the politics...well for me this has raised an interesting question...
On this forum we are all sailors....we all share a love of the sea, would undoubtedly go out of our way to help fellow sailors and yet despite this shared passion it has descended at times to mud slinging and tub thumping. So, if we as a group, united by a common passion canít debate and even disagree with respect, what hope for humanity as a whole? How can all the nations of the world, with their own agendas, priorities, and national interests put all those aside and work together in a meaningful and trustworthy way? I honestly donít think this can happen.
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:42   #1213
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by Cherod View Post
the wealth differential has been widening alarmingly.
A few fun facts:
Estimates show that just eight men own the same wealth as the poorest half of the world.
Since 2015, the richest 1% has owned more wealth than the rest of the planet.
Eight men now own the same amount of wealth as the poorest half of the world.
Over the next 20 years, 500 people will hand over $2.1 trillion to their heirs, a sum larger than the GDP of India, a country of 1.3 billion people.
The incomes of the poorest 10% of people increased by less than $3 a year between 1988 and 2011, while the incomes of the richest 1% increased 182 times as much.
An FTSE-100 CEO earns as much in a year as 10,000 people in working in garment factories in Bangladesh.
In the US, new research by economist Thomas Piketty shows that over the last 30 years the growth in the incomes of the bottom 50% has been zero, whereas incomes of the top 1% have grown 300%.
The fortune of Bill Gates, for instance, has risen 50% or $25bn since he left Microsoft in 2006, despite his commendable efforts to give much of it away.
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Old 02-12-2019, 14:57   #1214
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
One is sailing with his daughter and pandering to her anxiety [emoji3]
Having just crossed the Atlantic out of season I wouldn't say Greta is anxiety prone.
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Old 02-12-2019, 15:00   #1215
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
A few fun facts:
Estimates show that just eight men own the same wealth as the poorest half of the world.
Since 2015, the richest 1% has owned more wealth than the rest of the planet.
Eight men now own the same amount of wealth as the poorest half of the world.
Over the next 20 years, 500 people will hand over $2.1 trillion to their heirs, a sum larger than the GDP of India, a country of 1.3 billion people.
The incomes of the poorest 10% of people increased by less than $3 a year between 1988 and 2011, while the incomes of the richest 1% increased 182 times as much.
An FTSE-100 CEO earns as much in a year as 10,000 people in working in garment factories in Bangladesh.
In the US, new research by economist Thomas Piketty shows that over the last 30 years the growth in the incomes of the bottom 50% has been zero, whereas incomes of the top 1% have grown 300%.
The fortune of Bill Gates, for instance, has risen 50% or $25bn since he left Microsoft in 2006, despite his commendable efforts to give much of it away.
I don't doubt its veracity, but why on earth are you posting this here? To what effect? Especially when it only encourages Cherod's efforts to go even further OT than what has already occurred? Do you think this sort of class warfare material will really help bring people together in helping to offset global warming? Wouldn't a message appealing to the vast middle who are genuinely concerned about CC, but don't want to tear down the socioeconomic system, have more resonance? Call me a cynic, but I think the Greta's of the world are more motivated by all the adulation surrounding their own extreme ideology than they are about finding real solutions. It's always easier throwing stones and falling back on one's own self-righteousness than trying to find real consensus.
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