Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2014, 19:45   #31
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Peeling a Hull

I did a similar job on our 84 Camper Nicholson, not as deep a dive but the entire bottom.

We found the 9" dia 40 grit wheels from Home Depot's rental department fit my right angle drive and worked very well for fairing. You will need a lot of glass & resin. Consider that a proper hull sealer is specialized epoxy (Interprotect 2000E). I think you will be ahead if you go straight to epoxy for the new top layers. You can get bulk marine epoxy from US Composites Epoxy :*Epoxy Resins and Hardeners Use 636 THIN. Its made for wet-out of cloth and has a very long working time so you don't need to rush. Its no-blush so you can layer up without scrubbing. Lots of cloth & fillers available here and good tutorials. By my estimate, 1/4 inch at 50% resin-glass you are going to need about 40 gallons. Use the 2:1 to avoid the blush. I use a paint brush to wet the hull and also to smooth the glass into the resin. You can hold the glass/resin layer in place by applying a sheet of polyethylene film in the wet resin. Tape the top. You can then roller over if necessary. Use epoxy & filler for the last resin coats for build so that there is no bare glass end at the surface to wick water in.

BTW, the liquid you found is not uncured resin but decomposed resin. It is acid & nasty. Keep it off your skin and away from your eyes. We had big blisters under pressure that I had to lance with a drill to control the blow-out.

My gallery photos are here. Lots of glass projects. All 635 resin.
Member Galleries - Cruisers & Sailing Photo Gallery

Looks like you are well into the big job & looking good.
__________________

__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2014, 20:03   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

It's probably splitting hairs and doesn't matter one way or the other, but what is in the few voids that have liquid is just old water. What I describled as resin is quite similar to the resin I'd spill in my shop and not clean up. Thick and slowly moves. Sticky, runny in the same was as old tree sap. I't isn't coming from blister or voids, but slowly oozing out of a very thin layer between the good solid glass below and the crap on top.

Of course, I've only gotten into maybe 5%, so there is no telling what else lurks in there. Maybe a sample of everything anyone has suggested!

I'll try to get another 4 hours or so tomorrow. About all I can do these days.

Of course, I can always take a break and work on laminating up the extension on the too-small rudder. But that is a different subject, I guess.
__________________

__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 16:34   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

Well, everyone likes pictures, especially if it's of someone else's misery, not their own!

This thing is a lot of work, but in the last day I've spent some time figuring out how to adjust it correctly and using it in verttical passes. It's working much better and faster. I'm still doing the low hanging fruit (eye level, not laying on my back) but it's going much better. The pictures show today's 2 hour's work. Front part is to good glass, back sectikon is 3 passes on the front part, 2 on the back. You can see it's nearly through the green glass (both color and curing) with 3 passes. Nearly 3/8" inch. I'm also surprised that I'm still on the first side of the first blades. The manual says gelcoat is harder on them, and since I have none I guess they are going a long ways. Of course, the glass is pretty soft, too.

Last picture is the start of an extension on the rudder. As I get sick of planing, I'll lay up some glass.

I should get a job - these hobbies are killing me.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	pfront.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	336.8 KB
ID:	93456   Click image for larger version

Name:	pmiddle.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	267.8 KB
ID:	93457  

Click image for larger version

Name:	rud.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	289.0 KB
ID:	93458  
__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 16:47   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina
Boat: 44 footer
Posts: 923
Re: Peeling a Hull

Idea:

Take sharpie marker and mark out the areas with the depth of cut you stopped at, total... either in number of passes or sum of depth as you've adjusted it.

Makes it a lot easier if you do any exploratory digging, to lay back up the required number of layers and have a fair job.

Cheers,

Zach
__________________
Zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2014, 17:20   #35
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Peeling a Hull

From my experience, you may find the rudder requires a total rebuild or at least a re-core. If the skin is OK but interior is crap, you can make a few windows, dig out the krud and refill using syntactic foam. That is epoxy/microballoon mix. Using the epoxy I noted above, I mix 3 gallons of epoxy with 10 gallons of balloons in large plastic buckets & use a drywall mixer in a 1/2 inch drill. The 635 resin is very slow and will not liberate enough heat to matter. My rudder pour was 6 inches thick and never was warm to touch. Cure time hard for sanding was 3 days in the basement. (Pictures on my photo site noted above)
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:12   #36
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Peeling a Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsailor View Post
Well, everyone likes pictures, especially if it's of someone else's misery, not their own!

This thing is a lot of work, but in the last day I've spent some time figuring out how to adjust it correctly and using it in verttical passes. It's working much better and faster. I'm still doing the low hanging fruit (eye level, not laying on my back) but it's going much better. The pictures show today's 2 hour's work. Front part is to good glass, back sectikon is 3 passes on the front part, 2 on the back. You can see it's nearly through the green glass (both color and curing) with 3 passes. Nearly 3/8" inch. I'm also surprised that I'm still on the first side of the first blades. The manual says gelcoat is harder on them, and since I have none I guess they are going a long ways. Of course, the glass is pretty soft, too.

Last picture is the start of an extension on the rudder. As I get sick of planing, I'll lay up some glass.

I should get a job - these hobbies are killing me.



Much better. Only input I'd have from here on your peel job is that I would have done a single pass over the whole bottom, then a second, then a third if necessary. If you just make multiple passes on a given area you are going to make keeping a fair bottom unlikely, whereas if you incrementally take the whole bottom down the exact same amount everywhere until all bad glass is gone, it will be much easier to glass back up relatively fair. But it's a bit late for that in this case. Keep at it and good luck!
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:42   #37
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Peeling a Hull

I think this nightmare warrants a free pass at the pearly gates when the time comes...

Unless of course... You did something karma-cally horrific... But you don't seem that type of guy at all...

I'm elated you have the invaluable help watching ... Good luck man!
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 08:55   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

Doing one pass on the whole boat would not be practical. Among other problems, they would have to move the stands every couple hours. In addition, it's not likely the whole boat will need the same amount removed.

I will say that, now that I'm getting the hang of this thing it's an amazing tool. I am 100% sure buying this was the right way to go.

I just wish the guys on the next boat weren't painting it all the time!
__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 13:51   #39
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,201
Images: 52
Re: Peeling a Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsailor View Post
Doing one pass on the whole boat would not be practical. Among other problems, they would have to move the stands every couple hours. In addition, it's not likely the whole boat will need the same amount removed.

I will say that, now that I'm getting the hang of this thing it's an amazing tool. I am 100% sure buying this was the right way to go.

I just wish the guys on the next boat weren't painting it all the time!


Exactly my point. While it's not likely the whole boat needs the same amount removed, you should do so anyway. That way you can glass back up with the same amount everywhere and end up with a relatively fair bottom, especially if you do staggered butt joints. The way you are doing it will lead to problems at the glass stage and fairing stage.


If you need better dust control for the sake of your neighbors, tent your bottom. It should be anyway. I don't know how much footprint the EPA has in your area, but fines are substantial.
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2014, 18:32   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

Got a little more done today. Been offering various people the opportunity to see how a Gelplane works but no takers do far. Darn the luck.

But the question has come up as to what to put on once the glass is restored, and more specifically, should it have gelcoat on it?

Any thoughts as to what should go on the surface before bottom paint?
__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2014, 07:02   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

As to making the same number of passes on the entire boat, or removing the same amount of material, I have (already have) to take 3/4" off on the starboard side in the middle. That is thicker than the glass on the bottom at the transom. I'd have nothing but air!

I have one crack where the front of the keel turns into boat bottom. I think that is where I was getting water into the boat. I'll grind that back pretty deep, then build it up, probably an inch thhicker than original. Maybe the whole front edge that would hit something first.
__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2014, 12:47   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

I have what appears to be a 1/2" hole drilled and filled with a dowel rod about 1 foot below the waterline, 1 each side, in the center of the boat.

I wonder - did someone take a core sample and drive a dowel in? Makes no sense.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	393.2 KB
ID:	93568  
__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2014, 19:38   #43
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 3,466
Images: 83
Re: Peeling a Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsailor View Post
Doing one pass on the whole boat would not be practical. Among other problems, they would have to move the stands every couple hours. In addition, it's not likely the whole boat will need the same amount removed.
Not exactly true. Here is how we managed it. I was able to borrow chains and ratchets for load securing on truck-trailers. I placed the modified tops of four tall tack stands (borrowed from the yard) so that the tops wedged under artifacts on the hull above the water line. I joined the stands on opposite sides near the top; under the keel and torqued the chains tight. The geometry at this point prevents the hull from falling as that would require longer chain. You can easily see this from the front-on view. We did this so that the barrier coat could be applied 2-3 coats per day & antifouling continuously without stopping. Our boat dimensions are 58 LOA; 16 beam; 6'-8" draft; 35 tons. If it was really windy I would have added a few of the other stands back in. Certainly, you could do this and put back stands if you will be away for a while.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010057.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	437.2 KB
ID:	93582   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010058.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	420.6 KB
ID:	93583  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010063.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	398.5 KB
ID:	93584   Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010113.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	416.8 KB
ID:	93585  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P1010121.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	427.1 KB
ID:	93586  
__________________
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-12-2014, 16:36   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas coast
Boat: Cheoy Lee 40 Midshipman
Posts: 48
Re: Peeling a Hull

The fun goes on.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0368.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	412.5 KB
ID:	93657   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0367.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	431.7 KB
ID:	93658  

__________________
austinsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2014, 16:55   #45
cpa
Registered User
 
cpa's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Boat: Compass 47
Posts: 596
Re: Peeling a Hull

This looks like a tough project. It does looks like you are kicking butt though! Also thanks for sharing with pictures. I had to do a peel on the hull of my last boat. I hired it out and I think it cost me $1k. Luckily the blisters were just below the gelcoat and very little glass had to be removed. All I had to do was the final fairing and barrier coat. It was a rough couple months though. Good luck.
__________________

__________________
cpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peeling a Wooden Hull minaret Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 20-01-2014 08:17
New Bottom Paint Peeling off Old Paint catalina38 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 26-02-2013 14:02
Blisters!! Peeling or Sandblasting?? teneicm Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 29-08-2012 21:10
Peeling the Bottom lancelot9898 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 14 05-06-2012 14:59
Cabintop Gelcoat Peeling cburger Construction, Maintenance & Refit 2 21-08-2007 18:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.