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Old 14-05-2013, 05:30   #1
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Modernizing a Prout Elite 37ft

hi all
as some may know i have accuired a prout snowgoose elite 37 hull and deck,standing for 20 years next to the factory,in more or less pristine condition,apart from 20 years of dirt on the gelcoat.

see photos http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...uk-101799.html

currently i'm putting a temporary rig together,and have purchased a sonicdrive gearbox/outboard leg to go with the 33hp engine that came with the boat for propulsion.

with the addition of the aft bulkheads and a bit of tabbing,a steering system ,batteries ,nav lights etc the plan is to launch it and sail it the 350 miles to falmouth for a fit out,later in the summer.

my last project, is more or less finished
MacWester 26 and the 'hina-ous' Crew

so i was wondering about taking the oppertunity to modernise the prout design that has very little head room in the saloon (5'3"!),and moving the mast fwd,as you would find on a conventional cat.

the plan would be to fabricate a mould for an enclosed raised cabin top fwd of the steering position,similar to the gemini 105 mc Google Image Result for http://geminicatamarans.com/gemini105mc/images/stories/gemini_lauderdale_2.jpg

this will allow head room throughout the saloon area,add a great deal of light,allow for a galley upstairs and nav station.

moving the mast fwd will also improve the vessels ability to go to windward.

a few tentative scribblings,taken from the plans, any input appreciated!
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Old 15-05-2013, 00:56   #2
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

The whole design concept of Prout (and to an extent Broadblue now) is to have an aft set mast with a small mainsail and larger headsails. I would be very wary of changing that philosophy without any input from a Naval Architect/Designer. Prouts do have a proven record which I don't think you will improve on much by making her go to windward slightly better. Just my tuppence worth!
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Old 15-05-2013, 02:38   #3
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

What you do may or may not work, however, even if it works, it will significantly affect second hand vaue.

Furthermore the hull has been built with specific mast and rigging locations and as such will have been strengthened in those areas. Windward performance in a Prout 37 elite is reasonable provided they are not overloaded and the central nacelle immersed.
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Old 15-05-2013, 14:29   #4
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sos View Post
The whole design concept of Prout (and to an extent Broadblue now) is to have an aft set mast with a small mainsail and larger headsails. I would be very wary of changing that philosophy without any input from a Naval Architect/Designer. Prouts do have a proven record which I don't think you will improve on much by making her go to windward slightly better. Just my tuppence worth!
good points i will pop round to james wharram and see what he thinks about moving the mast location,though my biggest concern is modernising the design layout by adding on a bridge deck pilot house.

this will radically alter the saloon in line with more modern cats allowing fwd visibility ,light and headroom,also an upstairs galley and nav station.
as the cat is for myself i am not that worried about the book resale value,though this might be a consideration in 10-15 years time,but by then the design will have been out of production for nearly 30 years,so in retrospect a newer layout might be a bonus.
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Old 15-05-2013, 14:37   #5
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
What you do may or may not work, however, even if it works, it will significantly affect second hand vaue.

Furthermore the hull has been built with specific mast and rigging locations and as such will have been strengthened in those areas. Windward performance in a Prout 37 elite is reasonable provided they are not overloaded and the central nacelle immersed.
thanks for the input,though at this stage,as a shell, reinforcing strong points would not be an issue,weight as well,as i am in a position to use modern techniques using epoxy and lighter materials.
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Old 15-05-2013, 15:06   #6
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

atoll,
Does it have to be a sail cat?
Maybe a power cat would allow for more modernization in the design without the worries of the sails and the modified performance.
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Old 15-05-2013, 15:12   #7
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

I would not be sure moving the mast foward will necessarily improve performance.

Centrally locating mast allowing for smaller mail and larger foresails is a modern design trend for improved performance in racing. Dascat, freeflow, the new Lagoons have moved down that track.

Have a discussion with Darren Newton from Dazcat for a knowledegable opinion.

The concept of raised cabin top like Gemini sounds a good idea.

Sounds a good project.
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Old 15-05-2013, 15:53   #8
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

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atoll,
Does it have to be a sail cat?
Maybe a power cat would allow for more modernization in the design without the worries of the sails and the modified performance.
my other boat burns 200plus liters of fuel a day if im motorsailing,the idea with this one is shallow draft,and minimal running costs,so sails,and good sailing ,solar are priorities.
will post some photos of the sonic drive that im modifying at the moment,$150 dollars on ebay....so cant be bad!together with the 33hp engine that came with the vessel should give me reasonable motoring options,though the idea is to be able to achieve 150-170 miles a day sans moteur!
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Old 15-05-2013, 15:59   #9
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I would not be sure moving the mast foward will necessarily improve performance.

Centrally locating mast allowing for smaller mail and larger foresails is a modern design trend for improved performance in racing. Dascat, freeflow, the new Lagoons have moved down that track.

Have a discussion with Darren Newton from Dazcat for a knowledegable opinion.

The concept of raised cabin top like Gemini sounds a good idea.

Sounds a good project.
i will have a chat with some of my mentors(wharram and klaar),though have allways felt that a cat should be able to sail on the main alone...not sure if the aft rig will do this.
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Old 15-05-2013, 18:11   #10
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
my other boat burns 200plus liters of fuel a day if im motorsailing,the idea with this one is shallow draft,and minimal running costs,so sails,and good sailing ,solar are priorities.
will post some photos of the sonic drive that im modifying at the moment,$150 dollars on ebay....so cant be bad!together with the 33hp engine that came with the vessel should give me reasonable motoring options,though the idea is to be able to achieve 150-170 miles a day sans moteur!
Wow, yes that was a lot of fuel to burn.
With the 33hp you will use a shot glass of fuel per hour.
Did you get the original mast, boom and rigging?
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Old 15-05-2013, 18:38   #11
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

In all fairness this is like remodeling a house sitting on a cracked foundation.

if you want something other than a Prout you should get something other than a Prout. These boats function OK as is, but there are pretty limited by the hull shape, beam, weight, wing clearance, etc, etc.
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Old 15-05-2013, 19:21   #12
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

I'd keep the mast location, Prouts actually sail alright if not pinched or overloaded. How about checking out Chris White's mast foil system for an update? You could install one keeping the stock mast location.

In a blow the stock rig will sail just fine with the staysail.
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Old 16-05-2013, 01:57   #13
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Wow, yes that was a lot of fuel to burn.
With the 33hp you will use a shot glass of fuel per hour.
Did you get the original mast, boom and rigging?
no mast or boom as yet for the finished vessel,so my options are still open.

though i do have the rig that came off the macwester project,this is about 350 sq ft,about half the designed sail area,this i will use for the delivery to cornwall from london.

the rig might raise a few eyebrows as it is a gaff rig with tan sails!

there cant be that many gaff rigged prouts about
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Old 16-05-2013, 02:11   #14
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

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Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
I'd keep the mast location, Prouts actually sail alright if not pinched or overloaded. How about checking out Chris White's mast foil system for an update? You could install one keeping the stock mast location.

In a blow the stock rig will sail just fine with the staysail.
assuming i kept the location,but built the bridgedeck cabin,then it would be better to step the mast on a cross beam in side,rather than on the cabin roof.

next question is there were some built with 37 ft masts,and others using 45 ft masts it would be interesting to hear from a prout owner with a BIG STICK!
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Old 16-05-2013, 02:49   #15
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Re: modernizing a prout elite 37ft

Catalac, and I think Prout as well, offered a longer mast if you were going to be based in the Med.

There was also a major rigging change post 1996 which changed to a diamond rigged main with aft shrouds to the hull deck join rather than to the coachroof. Your hull pre-dates this. I know of one earlier hull that was modified for this on original build, and sinificant strengthening was added to the are of the hull deck join for this

The mast on the snowgoose is not only supported by significant strengthening under it, but also by the major bulkhead on which it is located. Moving it forward would mean adding in a major bulkhead in order to accept the downwards pressure from the mast and to prevent the shrouds from bending the boat in half.
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