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Old 27-06-2013, 10:00   #16
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Re: How much Heel?

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
What's heel?
You dont want to know with that boat!(nice)
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Old 27-06-2013, 10:04   #17
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Re: How much Heel?

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Originally Posted by pete33458 View Post
I agree. Aside from a knockdown (and I will assume we are not talking about those kinds of conditions), the limiting factor for me is how much weather helm is induced. When I balance the rig, the heeling takes care of itself. So maybe I would suggest you try worrying less about how much heel angle you have and focus on how much you are fighting the helm. pete

I think that's a really good suggestion. Heeling changes the angle at which the luff of the sail meets the wind, and before determining your optimal heel you have to know how your boat feels when well balanced. My friend who races can play his boat like a violin, knows all its nuances. On my boat you'll feel the boat almost pick up like a good horse who has finally been given his "head" and is free to run. I've felt it numerous times as I let beginners make all the calls from how much heel to how the sails are set, etc. All of a sudden the boat slips into its groove and takes off. You can spot who's going to make a good sailor by whether or not they also feel it. If they don't, they keep floundering around, fiddling with the traveler or something.

It's a game on my boat. I call it "rodeo rules." Whatever speed you can get the boat up to, you own it because you made all the shots while you were at the helm. Then we switch helmsmen and see if that person can beat the speed. Of course I only do that on moderate days. I'm not going to give a relative beginner the helm in building weather or seas. It's called "rodeo rules" because you have to hold the speed for 8 seconds. Surfing doesn't count.

It gets everyone engaged, and everyone pays more attention to what I'm asking them to do. At the same time I learn from others who know more than me -- "Watch what happens when I pull the traveler in" -- and we gain half a knot.
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Old 27-06-2013, 10:10   #18
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Re: How much Heel?

Just remember, too much heel can be dangerous! It'll definitely keep you on your toes.

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Old 27-06-2013, 10:14   #19
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Re: How much Heel?

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What's heel?

ROTFL! It's what happens before you pitchpole ...
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Old 27-06-2013, 10:14   #20
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Thumbs up Re: How much Heel?

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
A number of the flat bottomed beamy boats reach a point of negative righting moment when they go somewhere past 90 degrees of heel. You will only get a boat over 90 degrees of heel with a combination of wind and waves, however. All keel boats are designed to go 90 degrees with wind generated force and pop back up.

The issue is really at what angle do they sail best. The older narrower boats were quite happy with heeling angles greater than 20 degrees. Not so the modern designs. With their flat bottoms and wide beam healing angles much beyond 20 degrees puts the keel in the shadow of the hull seriously reducing it's ability to combat leeway. Also, the rudder starts coming out of the water. Couple that with burying all that hull sideways creating a bunch of drag and you seriously hurt performance. Modern boats liked to be sailed on their feet. I'll make that stronger, modern boats need to be sailed as upright as possible commensurate with getting as much driving force out of the sails as possible. Keep heel angle below 20 degrees on you Catalina and even less in some condiions and you will get the best performance.

Don't worry about a safe heeling angle when you have control of the boat. You are not going to be unsafe, just slow and uncomfortable.
Roverhi said it much more clearly and understandably than I did... Thanks, Rover... cheers, Phil
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Old 27-06-2013, 10:19   #21
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Re: How much Heel?

International Catalina 30 Association

Usually reef when the wind hits 15-18

There were over 6,000 of these boats made, the Association skippers will know.
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Old 27-06-2013, 11:22   #22
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Re: How much Heel?

Depends on the boat as to what is correct, here's an extreme example from the era of the Plank on Edge boats:

From:
Boat designs influenced by rules? Why Victorian Plank on Edge Cutters show canting keel maxi yachts are stupid and multihulls, smart | Storer Boat Plans in Wood and Plywood

there are mentions that some of these boats heeled over to 15 degrees FROM THE HORIZONTAL (!!!!) in normal sailing conditions.
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Old 27-06-2013, 11:26   #23
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Re: How much Heel?

How far you "can" and how far is best are different. Generally I would say for extended sailing 25 degrees max. ie: you are in the groove in steady wind, (not being knocked down) at 20-25 degrees. However , you should find that sailing with less heel by reducing sail area will be more comfortable and just as fast. Experiment with hull speed and find out.
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Old 27-06-2013, 11:49   #24
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Re: How much Heel?

The helm will tell you. It's time to depower when the weather helm becomes excessive and/or the boat wants to round up in the gusts. Don't worry about the number on the inclinometer.
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Old 27-06-2013, 11:52   #25
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Re: How much Heel?

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The helm will tell you. It's time to depower when the weather helm becomes excessive and/or the boat wants to round up in the gusts. Don't worry about the number on the inclinometer.

... unless the engine is running for some reason.
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