Photos of Anchors Setting

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The old school would have you sailing up to the point of drop and then back winding your main to push you back and set the anchor. If the breeze is strong enough that will work.
Years ago we lost a water pump on the engine and had to wait for 3 months to get a new one (different days way back then) we cruised for 3 months without an engine so we developed quite a bit of experience anchoring under sail. The method we used most of the time was to simply sail around the anchorage until we found a spot we wanted to drop in and we would sail by it and drop the hook while under way and pay out the rode and when we had the proper amount out we would cleat it off and wait. When the anchor set it would spin us around head to wind and we would drop our sails.

That's a pretty bad-ass method of anchoring under sail. I kind of like it. I have a bowsprit, so I'd be a bit concerned about spinning the wrong way and loading my bobstay. Or catching my keel for that matter, with long enough scope. I guess you can arrange to spin a particular way, though?

[robert sailor]

Sure, take a hint from Snowpetrel and just start a real slow turn as your rode is paying out and that's the way its going to take you so no problems with your bobstay.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

And this is where the conflict comes in
Do you ride over there in your dink, camera in hand to show him his anchor, and hopefully maybe save his boat in the future, hoping that if your nice he will take it the right way?

It is a dilemma that I have wrestled with.

Skippers are an independent lot and any suggestions need to be offered with the greatest diplomacy. It is complicated here because of language differences.

In this case I did not see the anchor underwater until the morning and by this time the risk was less, because they were on deck.

I have swum over to skippers and offered advice, but rarely. The last one was a Fortress owner that had a totally unset anchor, but only because it was adjusted to 45 degrees rather than the 32 degrees needed.

Most boat owners see me diving on their anchor, especially more recently when photographing the anchor, as this requires a few dives. If there is a problem with the anchor a slowly swim past their boat. I give them a wave and after a few pleasantries they want to know what I was doing, which is a good way of introducing the subject.

[noelex 77]

This was a genuine Bugel.

The drop was well done. There was no reverse applied, but the wind at the time was in the low 20s and together with a bit of momentum it provided a just adequate setting force. It was a 54 foot yacht.

This was the result in 7m @ 5:1.

The Bugel has set very quickly within a metre or so. The roll bar anchors set in a short distance. The simple design of the Bugel means that it often takes a fraction longer than the more sophisticated roll bar anchors, but on this occasion it has set almost immediately.

There is still some of the underside of the fluke exposed and it has not rotated quite level, but nothing that a little more force would not fix. There is very little heaping up of the substrate. The fluke has just dived down.

A good result.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

There was no reverse applied,

I wonder how motor less vessels ever anchor?

The roll bar anchors set in a short distance.

What has the roll bar got to do with setting distance? The roll bar seeks to ensure the anchor is right side up. There are other ways to achieve that. The roll bar can have no effect on setting distance once the anchor is right side up. None.

Still it was good to see the original roll bar anchor in action.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Factor

What has the roll bar got to do with setting distance? The roll bar seeks to ensure the anchor is right side up. There are other ways to achieve that. The roll bar can have no effect on setting distance once the anchor is right side up. None.

The correct setting orientation can be achieved by anchor designers in a number of different ways. A roll bar is only one option. For example the fixed plow anchors achieve this with a ballasted tip.

Unfortunately the ballast makes the tip thicker and bulkier which is a factor in increasing the setting distance.

I think the thin, sharp, profile of the tip of the roll bar anchors, combined with a reasonable tip weight and unstable nature, in anything other than the correct setting posture, are the design elements that combine to lead to the short setting distance.

If you look at the photos, the setting distance can usually be determined from the marks in the sand. You can compare the length taken by the various designs for yourself. I think you will find a definite overall pattern, which will become clearer as more examples are shown.

[Mark Johnson]

I have written an E-book on the subject that was originally aimed at multihull cruisers like myself, but my monohull friends have suggested to me that it might be almost as useful to monohull sailors. At least they liked it.

The E-book... "Anchoring and Mooring the Cruising Multihull" by Mark Johnson, is available through Amazon books or OutRig Media.

It is based on about 45 years off and on of first hand experience, with a LOT of time spent diving on anchors to see how they're REALLY set, or not! I consider anchoring an art that is a lot more complicated than which anchor to use.

Mark Johnson



The book's "Table Of Contents":

My Back Story
The Multihulls Anchoring Advantage
Anchoring and Mooring Equipment
PRIMARY Anchor Choices
Primary Anchor Sizes
SECONDARY Anchor Choices
Secondary Anchor Sizing
Anchor Rode Choices
Rope/Chain Rodes for SECONDARY Anchors
Shackles and Connecting Links
PRIMARY Anchor Rodes
Primary Rodes for Very Small Cruisers
Primary Rodes for Medium to Large Cruisers
Chain Fork VS Chain Stopper
Medium Sized Cruiser's Chain Diameter
Medium Sized Cruiser's Chain Length
Large Sized Cruiser's Primary Rode
Custom Made G4/HT Chains With Oversized End Links
Caveats of 1/4" HT chain
How I Marked My Chain For Depth
Floating Rope Rode
Floating Rope Alternative
Anchor Connections/Swivels
Chain Tensioners
The Ultimate Swivel
The Anchoring Bridle
Locking Chain Hooks
The Rolling Hitch
Bridle Construction
Bridle Attachment
Anchor Bridle Storage
Re-Deployment of the Bridle
Small Boat Bridles
Bridle Storage for Large Production Catamarans
Anchor/Bow Rollers
Building Your Own Bow Roller
Anchor Rode Lockers
My Washdown Hose Locker
Wing Anchor/Rode Lockers
Windlasses... Who Needs One
Hand Operated Windlasses
Windlass Brand Choices
Vertical VS Horizontal Windlasses
Windlass Location
Trimaran Windlass Options
Windlass Details on Delphys
Operating Your Windlass... Dropping Anchor
Operating Your Windlass... Getting Underway
Doing the Drill on Smaller Non-Windlass Multihulls
More About Anchoring Accessories
Short Range Communication Radios
Deck Level Anchor Lights
Anchor Viewing Bucket
Mooring/Anchor Marker Balls
Midship Cleats
Fixed Dock/Side To Docking
Floating Dock/Side To Docking
Anchoring Variations & Techniques
Lightweight Anchors as a Primary
The Bahamian Moor
The Bridle End Bahamian Moor
My Two Line Bowline, Bridle Tail Attachment
Diving Your Anchor
SAND Sea Bottoms
COMPOSITE Sea Bottoms
GRASS/WEED Sea Bottoms
HARD, CORAL, or ROCKY Sea Bottoms
MUD Sea Bottoms
Secondary Anchors in Soft Mud
Anchoring in High Growth Areas
GPS Anchor Alarms
Moorings and Their Problems for Multihulls
Mooring Solutions
My Mooring Bow Sprit
Parachute Sea Anchoring, Deployed From the Bow
Drogues, Deployed From the Stern
Running Off at Speed
Anchoring and Mooring for Hurricanes
My Hurricane Mooring Swivel System
Hurricane Mooring Schematic
Swimming Out an Emergency Anchor
Hurricane Tactic Observations After the BIG ONE
Other Short Term Moderate Storm Anchoring Options
Anchorage Etiquette

[bazzer]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The correct setting orientation can be achieved by anchor designers in a number of different ways. A roll bar is only one option. For example the fixed plow anchors achieve this with a ballasted tip.



Unfortunately the ballast makes the tip thicker and bulkier which is a factor in increasing the setting distance.



I think the thin, sharp, profile of the tip of the roll bar anchors, combined with a reasonable tip weight and unstable nature, in anything other than the correct setting posture, are the design elements that combine to lead to the short setting distance.



If you look at the photos, the setting distance can usually be determined from the marks in the sand. You can compare the length taken by the various designs for yourself. I think you will find a definite overall pattern, which will become clearer as more examples are shown.

I'm not a anchor designer, but I'm sure that the burying of the flukes are designed to be optimum with a 4:1 scope with a tight rode. Once it's buried then the weight of the rode should lay it along the bottom. This is to provide some shock absorber effect. If the anchor is not set correctly in the first place the angle of the shank will not allow for a decent set. The tip is likely to drag along the bottom. This is the case in most of Nolex's excellent photo's of anchors that are not set.

The Bugel. Has a very sharp tip and it's very heavy relative to its fluke area. The roll bar is of a large diameter compared to others. I believe that this is to prevent it burying to deeply.

If I was in the market for a new anchor I would look at the latest version, not the cheap Chinese version


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[bazzer]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

I have written an E-book on the subject that was originally aimed at multihull cruisers like myself, but my monohull friends have suggested to me that it might be almost as useful to monohull sailors. At least they liked it.



The E-book... "Anchoring and Mooring the Cruising Multihull" by Mark Johnson, is available through Amazon books or OutRig Media.



It is based on about 45 years off and on of first hand experience, with a LOT of time spent diving on anchors to see how they're REALLY set, or not! I consider anchoring an art that is a lot more complicated than which anchor to use.



Mark Johnson







The book's "Table Of Contents":



My Back Story

The Multihulls Anchoring Advantage

Anchoring and Mooring Equipment

PRIMARY Anchor Choices

Primary Anchor Sizes

SECONDARY Anchor Choices

Secondary Anchor Sizing

Anchor Rode Choices

Rope/Chain Rodes for SECONDARY Anchors

Shackles and Connecting Links

PRIMARY Anchor Rodes

Primary Rodes for Very Small Cruisers

Primary Rodes for Medium to Large Cruisers

Chain Fork VS Chain Stopper

Medium Sized Cruiser's Chain Diameter

Medium Sized Cruiser's Chain Length

Large Sized Cruiser's Primary Rode

Custom Made G4/HT Chains With Oversized End Links

Caveats of 1/4" HT chain

How I Marked My Chain For Depth

Floating Rope Rode

Floating Rope Alternative

Anchor Connections/Swivels

Chain Tensioners

The Ultimate Swivel

The Anchoring Bridle

Locking Chain Hooks

The Rolling Hitch

Bridle Construction

Bridle Attachment

Anchor Bridle Storage

Re-Deployment of the Bridle

Small Boat Bridles

Bridle Storage for Large Production Catamarans

Anchor/Bow Rollers

Building Your Own Bow Roller

Anchor Rode Lockers

My Washdown Hose Locker

Wing Anchor/Rode Lockers

Windlasses... Who Needs One

Hand Operated Windlasses

Windlass Brand Choices

Vertical VS Horizontal Windlasses

Windlass Location

Trimaran Windlass Options

Windlass Details on Delphys

Operating Your Windlass... Dropping Anchor

Operating Your Windlass... Getting Underway

Doing the Drill on Smaller Non-Windlass Multihulls

More About Anchoring Accessories

Short Range Communication Radios

Deck Level Anchor Lights

Anchor Viewing Bucket

Mooring/Anchor Marker Balls

Midship Cleats

Fixed Dock/Side To Docking

Floating Dock/Side To Docking

Anchoring Variations & Techniques

Lightweight Anchors as a Primary

The Bahamian Moor

The Bridle End Bahamian Moor

My Two Line Bowline, Bridle Tail Attachment

Diving Your Anchor

SAND Sea Bottoms

COMPOSITE Sea Bottoms

GRASS/WEED Sea Bottoms

HARD, CORAL, or ROCKY Sea Bottoms

MUD Sea Bottoms

Secondary Anchors in Soft Mud

Anchoring in High Growth Areas

GPS Anchor Alarms

Moorings and Their Problems for Multihulls

Mooring Solutions

My Mooring Bow Sprit

Parachute Sea Anchoring, Deployed From the Bow

Drogues, Deployed From the Stern

Running Off at Speed

Anchoring and Mooring for Hurricanes

My Hurricane Mooring Swivel System

Hurricane Mooring Schematic

Swimming Out an Emergency Anchor

Hurricane Tactic Observations After the BIG ONE

Other Short Term Moderate Storm Anchoring Options

Anchorage Etiquette

Wow, I must get a copy. Something else to read in my berth at night or when on watch!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[bazzer]

I'm going to shout, THANKS NOLEX FOR PROBABLY THE BEST THREAD ON ANCHORING YET. Poor anchoring is probably the number one reason for boats being lost.
THANKS NOLEX


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[a64pilot]

I've been astonished reading these anchoring threads just how short a scope most people use, I just got a new gen anchor, most of all my experience is with a Danforth and I have always put out a scope of 8 or 10 to 1 if I was anchoring overnight, I'd only use 5 or so to one for a short stay.
Do these new gen roll bar type of anchors not work as well on longer scopes?

[Sailormantx]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I've been astonished reading these anchoring threads just how short a scope most people use, I just got a new gen anchor, most of all my experience is with a Danforth and I have always put out a scope of 8 or 10 to 1 if I was anchoring overnight, I'd only use 5 or so to one for a short stay.
Do these new gen roll bar type of anchors not work as well on longer scopes?

I have wondered about that too, I had always been taught from way back when that 7 to 1 was and appropriate scope for normal conditions and 10 to 1 for storms.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Jim Cate]

For both of the above posters, a quick reality check is in order: there are all too many anchorages in the world, perhaps especially in the Med, where there simply is not room for those long scopes. Further, those old rules of thumb were developed with rope rodes and inefficient anchor designs. In fact, most of the newer anchors, especially on the ubiquitous chain rodes, develop good holding power on shorter ratios in moderate depths... as I think Nolex has well demonstrated.

Cheers,

Jim

[noelex 77]

Well, this is a bit embarrassing.

Coming into a new anchorage I managed to get our trolling line tangled around the prop. Getting a rope around the prop is one of the hazards of boating. Getting your own rope around the prop is one a hazards of being stupid . An elementary mistake, but I promised a warts and all review.

The anchor was dropped and we laid out the chain with just the wind force. As soon as some idle reverse was applied, the trolling line was sucked into the prop and the engine had to be quickly put into neutral. So the engine played no part in setting the anchor. The bonus is that it provides a picture of the result without any setting force from the engine, as several of you requested.

When the force on the anchor is provided by wind power and boat's momentum, the result will vary considerably depending on these factors. In a very light wind the chain will hold the boat and the anchor will just sit on the bottom without even digging in the toe. In about 25 knots of breeze the force (and therefore the set) will be very similar to what I achieve with engine force. This was in between.

It was blowing about 15 knots. In this wind strength with a disabled engine, I would have normally used the boats momentum to provide some more setting force, but as the engine problem was not apparent until the full scope had been laid out there was no opportunity to do this. So this was the result from the wind force alone in 5m @ 5:1.

The Mantus has started to dig in very quickly, within not much more than a foot. There is very little heaping up of the sand. It has a moderate list. Some of this may be due to the bent shank, but I suspect it is mostly from not enough setting force applied yet to rotate the anchor level. The fluke is 2/3 buried. This is a deeper set than I would have expected from this light wind force, especially from an oversized anchor with a big blade surface area and it is probably due to the soft sand in this anchorage. It shows no sign of a firmer layer underneath. This is more like the sort of sand I would find in Australia rather than the Med, so I am not sure a direct comparison between this result and other anchors I have shown is valid.

This set, while not as good as has been seen with the engine force, is still what I would deem adequate. There is more of a risk with a list like this that the anchor will break out with a large change in wind direction. A bit more force would bury the anchor deeper and rotate it level ensuring a safer response to change in wind direction. Hopefully we will get a bit more wind and I will be able to document it setting deeper.

[Palarran]

Thanks Noelex for the work taking the photos. Some have been interesting but not really surprising.

Anchors setting in pure sand, regardless of how buried they are or the method of set, really isn't that intriguing to me. When the bottom is rock or really thick weed, that is. How many of us have had problems with dragging when the bottom looks like your photo? None? But I sure have when the weed is so thick you can't see sand under it.

As a side on the Mantus, it is working very well for you but I wouldn't buy one. IMO, they look cheap and ugly and there are others that have the same functionality that don't. That's just my opinion.