Photos of Anchors Setting

[noelex 77]

This was the trolling line around the prop and shaft. This sort of thin line looked like it would be quite easy to remove, but it was very tightly wound. There was a similar tangle around the exit of the prop shaft that was harder to remove because there was little access.

The line was also wound twice around the rudder blade. This thin braided fishing line is quite strong, but I suspect it would have broken it the engine was left in gear. You can also do some damage, so avoid this unless it is an emergency. If you must engage the prop, spinning it the other way is worth trying first.

It is easy to see the potential for not only disabling the engine, but also jamming the rudder in this sort of situation. A good anchor that will hold first time, as the Mantus did (and has on every drop), is good insurance.

If trying to cut away rope, a serrated blade is best, but the fine braided line presented a slightly different challenge to the usual thick rope. As well as a normal serrated knife, I found a very sharp small ceramic knife and a cut off hacksaw blade in a holder useful for cutting the line that wound its way high up the prop shaft where it exits the boat (be careful not to score the prop shaft). Pliers were useful for gripping the short tails of cut line to pull them free. Similar tactics would no doubt be useful with monofilament fishing line as well.

If attempting to do this do not underestimate the difficulty and danger, especially in rough conditions when not at anchor. This looked like it would take 10 minutes. It took two of us two hours. Gloves and a wet suit or even old shirt are helpful in reducing the cuts and scrapes as well as contact with the antifouling. Some people find a rope strung under the hull a help in pulling themselves down.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Palarran

How many of us have had problems with dragging when the bottom looks like your photo? None?

Yes, I agree. In this sort of soft sand that is present in this anchorage, all anchors do well and there is generally little to pick visually between anchors of different designs.

The differences in holding power, resetting ability etc are also minimised although as the substrate becomes this soft some anchor designs start to drag in strong conditions despite setting well. The holding ability in these substrates comes more from blade surface area and resistance rather than clever geometry to enable the anchor to bite.

As the substrate becomes soft I place much more emphasis on noting which boats drag in stronger wind. Here diving and photographing can still be interesting, as many anchors will slowly be moving backwards at reasonably moderate wind speeds without their owners noticing there is a problem.

While this anchorage has soft sand, many of the anchorages I have shown have a much harder layer of sand not far under the surface. This really separates the good anchors that can penetrate this hard layer from the anchors that are struggling. Struggling anchors just scrape the softer top layer of sand and pile it into a heap. Sometimes they never even manage to dig in the tip and just scrape a long furrow. There are examples of all this behaviour in the thread and I sure there will be many other cases.

There also seems a good correlation between those anchors that can penetrate hard sand and those that can penetrate past weed roots into the substrate below. Thus a good performance in hard sand usually translates to a good performance in weed.

Rock is quite different and is very unpredictable. Some types of rock need a thin flukes (preferably a multi pronged anchor) to grab between the boulders. In smooth rock with a layer of sand over the top you need almost the opposite with a large broad blade area to scoop up as much as possible of the softer top layer to provide the grip.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For both of the above posters, a quick reality check is in order: there are all too many anchorages in the world, perhaps especially in the Med, where there simply is not room for those long scopes. Further, those old rules of thumb were developed with rope rodes and inefficient anchor designs. In fact, most of the newer anchors, especially on the ubiquitous chain rodes, develop good holding power on shorter ratios in moderate depths... as I think Nolex has well demonstrated.

Cheers,

Jim

I avoid crowed anchorages, in my part of the world if you don't you get to listen to all the drunks screaming over the too loud country music that are there to party.
It's not hard for me to find a place to anchor up by myself, there is good holding in lots of places not depicted as anchorages on Active Capt.
It's not going to be easy for me to get used to boats being on top of me, and having to have a 3 or 4 to 1 scope.
Do you guy's anchor in these crowded anchorages because your not allowed to anchor out of them, or just don't mind neighbors?

[a64pilot]

One of these, plus a surgeons scalpel, is good for cutting line as well as a fillet knife, but be real careful with the scalpel as you can cut yourself real bad with one.
https://www.google.com/search?q=plas...ml%3B700%3B469

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Do you guy's anchor in these crowded anchorages because your not allowed to anchor out of them, or just don't mind neighbors?

I much prefer deserted anchorages as well. The restrictions on scope, for me, are more often because of the risk of swinging into hazards like rocks, rather than other boats.

If you anchor next to boats with similar characteristics increasing the scope does not have a great impact on the number of boats you can fit in anchorage providing everyone has the same scope. However, if you anchor with a very short, or long scope this is unlikely to happen, as other boats will use a moderate scope creating the potential for conflict.

If bad weather arrives most boats will extend their scope and once again if everyone does this it does not cause any problems.

Remember if the chain is on the bottom next to the anchor even in the gusts the benefits of extra scope are minimal.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Do you guy's anchor in these crowded anchorages because your not allowed to anchor out of them, or just don't mind neighbors?

The biggest problem is water depth. In many anchorages it gets real deep real quick. The second problem is that there really are not that many well protected bays to even anchor in. You have to pay attention to your pilot book and the predicted wind direction and strength every day. Most of the islands we visited this year had few really bomb proof large bays, which is why in the Eastern Med, stern tying is so common. The third problem is the Italians and French

Neither of your reasons is why we are in crowded anchorages, it's because there are so few available for so many boats.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Neither of your reasons is why we are in crowded anchorages, it's because there are so few available for so many boats.

One of the advantages aiming for the best anchor design and then over sizing it is that you can safely anchor in places that are deemed unsafe, or unsuitable for overnight anchorages. These are often the best spots. For a very small extra cost (in terms of the total boat price) and a small extra weight the boat gains considerable versatility.

With recent anchor developments a lot of areas that are listed as poor holding in the pilot books are quite OK with modern anchors and the higher overall holding power means less wind and swell protection are required.

[monte]

a quick snap of our 25 kg kobra, 8m 5:1 2500rpm x 2 engines. Seems to have set within 1m in course sand and ain't going anywhere. I left the engines at 2500 rpm, set a waypoint and the boat doesn't move so no dragging at all once set. Nicely buried with just the ears sticking up. Water is a bit chilly in Galicia so I didn't feel like hanging around on the bottom to take snaps. Maybe when we are in warmer water I'll get some nicer shines ones aka the mermaids glossy magazine style We upgraded to the 25 kg kobra from the standard 20 kg delta which we had on our lagoon 380. The delta was fine on the 380, bit with an extra 3 tons + a lot more windage of the 400 I sleep better with the additional size. The kobra also had ridiculously good holding power in the reviews I read.
Camera is a intova hde sport camera which I haven't played around with yet so hopefully the quality will improve. Cheers from sunny Ria Vigo (punta subrido)

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

One of the advantages aiming for the best anchor design and then over sizing it is that you can safely anchor in places that are deemed unsafe, or unsuitable for overnight anchorages. These are often the best spots. For a very small extra cost (in terms of the total boat price) and a small extra weight the boat gains considerable versatility.

With recent anchor developments a lot of areas that are listed as poor holding in the pilot books are quite OK with modern anchors and the higher overall holding power means less wind and swell protection are required.

Of course you are right. But unsafe and uncomfortable are two different subjects. Most of the anchorages in Heikels pilot book are noted because they are safe and comfortable. I seldom deviated from his recommendations as we didn't have enough time to investigate every nook and cranny in order to find one that was comfortably safe and empty.

Sorry though as this is deviating from your thread purpose of showing anchors setting.

[noelex 77]

There is a French boat near us with a Brittany style anchor. They were here when I arrived so I have no idea of the drop technique or what force was exerted, other than they were obviously subject to at least the same strength wind as the Mantus.

The Brittany anchor is a bit like the Danforth without the stock and like the Danforth it performs very well in soft substrates, but struggles in anything harder. I would expect it to do very well in this sort of substrate and have quite high holding power.

This was the result. The sand is so soft here that the drag marks are filling in very quickly (they have almost disappeared for the Mantus in 24 hours) and there were none visible for the Brittany, so I don't know how long it had taken to set.

Interestingly, they also had a kellet about 4 metres from their anchor. The kellet looked about as well buried as the anchor , indicating how soft this sand is.

It was a lead disc with some very worn looking chain allowing it to slide up and down the rode. The main chain was also very thick for what was a small boat with a small anchor. Interesting to see this very "old school" anchoring approach. It would be great to see some strong wind to see how the effect of the kellet and heavy chain is lost.

(Note to self, must stop wishing for stronger wind while at anchor )

[colemj]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This was the trolling line around the prop and shaft.

What kinds of fish are you catching in the Med???? Maybe it is just the picture, but that line looks like it would be good for bluefin tuna! Maybe medium sized whales.

Mark

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by colemj

What kinds of fish are you catching in the Med???? Maybe it is just the picture, but that line looks like it would be good for bluefin tuna! Maybe medium sized whales.

Mark

Well its not been very successful so far my average is one tuna every three years, but ever the optimist I continue to tow it.

The rig was given to me by an old Italian fisherman. I think the thick line is more for easy handling. There is a monofilament trace on the end. The prop was stopped before the monofilament and lure were drawn in so they survived to catch the prop another day

[monte]

I lost more lures to the prop than to fish in the med

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by Palarran

The third problem is the Italians and French

I did not have any real problem caused by French yachties yet
My only unwanted through hull was Italian made

[Sailormantx]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For both of the above posters, a quick reality check is in order: there are all too many anchorages in the world, perhaps especially in the Med, where there simply is not room for those long scopes. Further, those old rules of thumb were developed with rope rodes and inefficient anchor designs. In fact, most of the newer anchors, especially on the ubiquitous chain rodes, develop good holding power on shorter ratios in moderate depths... as I think Nolex has well demonstrated.

Cheers,

Jim

Time for new generation anchoring techniques to go with the new anchors? I shortened up to about _5:1 last night and haven't moved yet. I avoid crowded places generally, but sometimes it is necessary, like here in Halifax. Jim's comments have inspired a bit of experimenting with different scopes to see what happens. This could save a lot of work pulling up unneeded chain from deep anchorages with my manual windlass!