Anyone with the new Suzuki DF15A or DF20A Outboard?

[HopCar]

"I was under the impression that modern propane tanks had an arm inside that closed the opening if the tank was far off of vertical. (side or upside down). "

The new tanks have an arm with a float on them that shuts the valve when the tank is full. If you turn the tank upside down, it will close the valve when the tank is empty. Until then, it will feed liquid propane.

"Interesting. Wouldn't that be relatively easily solved by simply using the appropriate tank that Lehr sells? Or...?"

Their thinking had been that people would use the regular tanks upside down. I think after talking with their tank manufacturer they will come out with a special liquid feed tank. The fiberglass forklift tank is actually very nice for the job. It holds 32 pounds (7.5 gallons) of propane and mounts horizontal. They would need to come out with some kind of bracket to keep it from rolling around in a boat.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by colemj

Well I must admit that I could not imagine another outboard taking the abuse and giving the service that our 1998 Honda 4-stroke did. Given how we used it, and the fact that it required virtually no maintenance from me ever, I am still amazed whenever I see it go by pushing the panga we sold it to.

However, our cruising experience with other people's newer 4-stroke Hondas and Yamahas do not show them to be less robust than any other engines. The Hondas commonly seem to have frequent carburetor problems (always cured by cleaning the carb), while the Yamahas commonly seem to have some other type of running problem not related to the carb and extremely difficult to diagnose/fix. And the Yamahas are very heavy engines.

So we decided "what the heck" and chose to jump on the first train heading into the future of these small outboards. I think in the near future you will see the rest of them start to bring their bigger engine fuel injection and electronic control down into their smaller ranges like Suzuki did. Makes perfect performance and profit sense - as has been noted in this thread, a single engine of this type can be used for a wider range of models simply by programming the computer differently, so less manufacturing tooling, less different parts and packaging, etc.

But who knows? By the time you are looking for a new outboard, I may be back on here warning everyone away from the Suzuki!

Mark

I neglected to remember that part about this new motor.
Definitely a good thing.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The catch 22 of the stickers is the word MAY contain up to X% Ethanol. It takes gasoline prices of more than $4 a gallon for ETH to even make economic sense, below approximately that, gasoline is cheaper. Problem is many States have mandated it's use, yours may be one of them.
!00LL, is refined illegally actually, since the mandate of the adoption of un-leaded fuels somewhere around the mid to late 70's, Federal law made the manufacture of leaded fuels illegal.

Anyway, many times the ETH content of fuel is almost zero, eventhough the sticker on the pump proclaims it's use. Sometimes stations that advertise ETH free fuel, are lying, their fuel has ETH in it, without testing, you can't be sure.

I may have garbled a bit on the "leaded" and "Avgas" in the same sentence. I've been told (but don't know first hand) there's a gas station about 50 miles from here that sells leaded gas suitable for (and being marketed to owners of) old '60's and '70s racing cars. Not sure if true, nor how it's created. Lead additive after delivery? I had a bottle of lead additive once, for use in a much older outboard... until I could pin down the (now defunct) manufacturer about whether unleaded would work OK or not...

And then I've also been told, same source, that one can buy 110 octane Avgas at the very local general aviation airport. Haven't tried to do that...

In the long run, I'm not all that interested in a solution that requires leaping through hoops...

Although I wouldn't consider augmenting with external sediment filters and fuel-water separators to be completely out of the question, if necessary. That would seem to me to be more of a mounting/protecting/hose routing issue than anything else...

-Chris

[a64pilot]

Almost certainly not leaded race gas, haven't seen that in well forever. Put your address in http://www.racegas.com/fuelfinder
Avgas is illegal for any other use, and I'm not sure its suitable for outboards anyway

[colemj]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Although I wouldn't consider augmenting with external sediment filters and fuel-water separators to be completely out of the question, if necessary. That would seem to me to be more of a mounting/protecting/hose routing issue than anything else...

-Chris

That should be a definite instead of a consideration. The one common thing I see cruising is that those without an external fuel filter have the most outboard problems. By a large amount.

We have a small one with a clear bowl and it is often that I have to unscrew the bowl and dump water out of it. Don't rely solely on the cheap in-line screen filter the engine comes with.

Mark

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Almost certainly not leaded race gas, haven't seen that in well forever. Put your address in Sunoco Race Fuels | Fuel Finder
Avgas is illegal for any other use, and I'm not sure its suitable for outboards anyway

Interesting link, thanks. This is not the on-link I saw before; that one was focused only on ethanol-free gas, and wasn't particularly up to date, at least for places around here.

I see the first two street-legal fuel options have about 10 and 13% ethanol, respectively... and while the third doesn't seem to have enhanol, it also says not street legal and for off-road use only. Although maybe an outboard on a boat is OK in that context

I'll check through the rest, and with the two stations that are closest, see what they actually have...

There aren't many all that nearby. One of the places is indeed up in the town that I first mentioned racing gas (even further than a couple closer listings).

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by colemj

We have a small one with a clear bowl and it is often that I have to unscrew the bowl and dump water out of it. Don't rely solely on the cheap in-line screen filter the engine comes with.

Ah! Another nugget! It helps to know you've augmented the onboard filter...

How have you mounted that external filter? Directly to transom? Or...?

-Chris

[colemj]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Ah! Another nugget! It helps to know you've augmented the onboard filter...

How have you mounted that external filter? Directly to transom? Or...?

-Chris

Yes, directly on the transom. I just cut the fuel line and hooked the tank end to the intake and the engine end to the outflow. We have had this filter for many years before the Suzuki.

Mark

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by colemj

Yes, directly on the transom. I just cut the fuel line and hooked the tank end to the intake and the engine end to the outflow. We have had this filter for many years before the Suzuki.

Mark

Nifty, thanks.

I've been intending to add a better in-line filter even for our current outboard, but it's been slightly lower in priority as projects (or beverages) go.

I've also thought about mounting a filter inside a slightly larger transportable box that might also be big enough to carry the external fuel tank, too. Assuming I can find a box with dinghy-friendly dimensions and so forth. Just to keep all that stuff protected from weather, the dog, whatever, plus adding a raised flat surface that might be handy for something...

Anyway, given that we haven't really had any un-fixable sediment issues, and when I use the external tank it's relatively easy to quickly recycle any left-over gas into a truck or something... coping with water and phase separation hasn't been unsolvable for the short term.

But I want to get on with the real improvement this season

-Cheers, Chris

[colemj]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Assuming I can find a box with dinghy-friendly dimensions and so forth.

Igloo coolers work well for this.

Mark

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by colemj

Igloo coolers work well for this.

Mark

Ah.... very good, might be just the ticket, thanks.

-Chris

[ranger58sb]

Ummm... wow!

I finally tried starting the new Suzuki DF15A on Tuesday, on the dinghy, but in the driveway with an external water supply. Started on the second pull.

Then yesterday, I launched the dinghy (started on first pull) and took a quick spin en route to the big boat.

Woof! This is only about the second time this tender has ever been on plane... and it felt like it took about 3 seconds to get there!

Of course increasing from 5-hp to 15-hp makes the biggest difference; I basically had no idea what it's like to plane this little thing

The motor is also so quiet at idle -- and at such a low RPM -- that I expected it to stop. It didn't, though, just held the dinghy nicely up against the big boat while I messed with lines and so forth....

It's actually an electric-start model, but I haven't shopped for a battery and box yet...

-Chris

[colemj]

Ummm, you did read the manual about the break-in schedule regarding rpm's and time, didn't you?

I'm still getting used to the idle. I keep motoring up to a dock or our boat and when dropped into idle think "crap, the damn thing just stalled". Only to turn around to restart it and notice that it still has water peeing out of it. I have actually stepped off the dinghy and tied it to the boat - only to discover that I had not turned off the engine first.

BTW, you should see how the 20hp runs!

Mark

[ranger58sb]

Yep, did indeed... and it didn't actually take much in the way of RPMs to get up on plane. And that was only for about 2 minutes anyway, then back down to slow to approach the big boat.

What you described with the idle is pretty much exactly how I felt

Something I wanted to check with you: does your engine cover have two small (1/4" diameter ?) holes in it, on top near the sides, roughly over where the second letter U appears in the logo? What are they for? I'd have thought they'd let rain in...

-Chris

[colemj]

Yes, ours has those "holes", only they do not penetrate the cowling (or are underneath the sealed air intake piece). I don't know what they are for or why they are there - maybe some indexing thing for manufacturing?

Yours penetrate the cowling?

Mark