Sea Tow: Only for milquetoasts?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Suijin

It's insurance.

Personally I would never go without it, although I've yet to need to use it.

When one towing event could easily cost more than 10-20 years of premiums, I think it's a pretty fair deal.

I've probably run aground a dozen times in my current boat, exclusively in mud. Been able to get off every time but if I'd gotten really stuck just once...

I wonder if it's really insurance, or whether it's more like a subscription service, where the guaranteed monthly income removes the risk of volatility of income to the provider (especially in the winter) and so reduces the cost of providing the service. That is, being always ready to provide the service.

Everyone I know with Sea Tow do actually use it, and generally at least once a year. I know we sure did. I think it's a terrific value.

Sailing around here (Northern Europe) you really don't need it nearly as much, for a couple of reasons -- first of all, you are not compelled to take such risks in these waters; second, we have much larger tides, so if you need to get someplace that might be dodgy at low water, you can always wait for a tide to get more water; third, if worst comes to worst, you WILL get towed, by another boater, by the Lifeboat, or even by the Coast Guard. If you run aground over here (or lose your engine or whatever) and call the Coast Guard, they take it as a serious matter and immediately start finding a tow for you, and will even send out one of their own assets if necessary. The attitude is totally different.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There did use to be a culture of helping each other, and it has to some extent gone away, I assume due to Sea Tow and Boat US existing.

Interesting. I don't know how much the mutual aid culture still prevails here.

I only have it, cause I know it will be thousands of $$$ if I need it and don’t have it. I have seen them charge others that much.

A Sea Tow membership is $179 per year. They will pay a maximum of $5000 per incident. I understand that typical towing charges are around $200 per hour, port to port, with a typical incident being billed out at around $800.

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

However, the fact that there is one honest owner does no alter the fact that many Sea Tow franchises are predatory.

I'd like to understand this better. Are there some franchises that try to bill for services that should be covered?

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, Jammer,

I notice you're in the Minneapolis area, a far cry from the East Coast. I think you should talk with the owners of similar size vessels to yours, and learn what they do. In many areas, there is still camaraderie of small boat sailors, and I have no reason to believe that is not true of where you are.

Also, the ICW is a place of frequently shifting sands, but your area's sand and mud banks may be fairly stable, so the decision may depend somewhat on the geography.

Good advice, thanks. I'm on Lake Pepin now -- best understood as the widest spot in the Mississippi -- and there are ongoing problems with the bottom silting up. They dredge it periodically, but people find shallows where there aren't supposed to be any.

Whether you are ready to extract yourself from a mistake, if you have the boating skills, you mostly can, or not, is something you have to look inside to see. We've got ourselves off a lot of sand or mud banks over the years. However, as you consider my opinion here, understand that we did offshore cruising without any kind of insurance for many years, and it was a very different feeling for a California girl who had always had insurance for everything. I think that American urge for insurance has, if anything, increased over the years. It may be a factor in your considering whether or not you want towing insurance, pushing you towards it when you don't really need it.

In other areas of my life, I try to operate independently rather than rely on service providers. I have recovery gear (for pulling cars out of the snow or mud) and tire patching kits in all my cars, and use it every once in a while; I've had to replace a starter and an alternator in parking lots on my own cars, and have done the same for friends to save them the cost of a tow.

If you are comfortable with reading your charts, and have got good at relating what you see on the chart to what is there around you on and in the water (like rocks that can sink you, and sand banks), then maybe you don't need it where you are. Depends on your confidence in your skills, and your area. Nothing at all to do with "milquetoast". It is not manhood that is in question when you question values, but a host of other traits.

I'm seeing a pattern in the replies that the main reason for service calls is running aground, rather than mechanical problems. Am I understanding that correctly?

Originally Posted by Suijin

When one towing event could easily cost more than 10-20 years of premiums, I think it's a pretty fair deal.

I'm not sure I see that. A typical towing event is going to cost more like 4 years of premiums. Because they set a maximum dollar amount, and won't use more than one boat to pull you out, and won't cover anything that they decide is salvage, the amount of value the coverage provides has upper bounds.

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Sea Tow for milquetoasts? Sure. Just like life jackets, EPIRBs, emergency flares. Heck! Carrying a VHF is probably for milquetoasts. Real men don't need no stinkin' help from nobody never!

I guess I see it as more of a financial choice than a question of safety.

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I have a catamaran sailboat (at least I did up until a few weeks ago), and a flats fishing boat (250 hp outboard). The sailboat draws less than 3-1/2 feet and has been aground twice - both times in the ICW. Both times towed off by Tow Boat US, using my insurance. (Otherwise, est cost $700 per incident.)

Another "aground" incident.... hmmm...

I am also on a fishing forum, and I am amazed by how many posts there are of people thanking their "fellow sportsman" for towing their fishing boat for hours after they spun a hub, or ran aground, or whatever. One poster who was the good Samaritan said he towed a boat for three hours, and then when they approached the dock the towed boat ran into the cowling on his outboard and cracked it, costing $1000 for him to replace. To me, pay your $180 for the insurance, and don't expect me to waste my day towing your cheap a**. It's a $70k+ fishing boat, and your expectation is that some other boater is going to be your insurance?

Only for "milquetoasts?" No, for those boaters that can gauge the cost of insurance vs probability of needing it, and don't depend on others to bail them out.

Where we differ is that my understanding of the "fellow sportsman" is that the responsibility for aiding other boaters is mutual. Maybe I need to rethink that, as the overall tone of the replies leads me to believe that times may have changed.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Another "aground" incident.... hmmm...

It happens. A few years ago crewed on a race to Bermuda (came in second by 57 minutes...if only we had wet sanded the hull dammit) then the delivery back. On our way up the Chesapeake overnighted on a creek and ran hard aground within the channel markers. A bit of an ignominious end to 11 days of ocean sailing. Tried everything to get off, kedging, tilting the boat etc. and finally had to call for a tow. Given how remote it was we could have waited days for some "fellow sportsman" to show up.

And then there are other scenarios far less benign. Your engine quits while you're fighting to stay off a lee shore beach...you want someone there who has the gear and knows what to do. In my experience a good percentage of boaters who might come to help out of the goodness of their heart could well make matters worse instead of better.

[mikeo16]

Everyone seems to associate towing with running aground. To me there are other valuable uses of a towing service (which I have used) such as: singlehanded sailing when prop got tangled in lobster trap lines in exposed waters that would not be wise to swim under the boat as it is bobbing up and down - they brought a diver out to free me; if you run into engine trouble in tight areas that you cannot sail or no wind - they towed me to my mooring. I look at it as a value if I utilize them once every 4-5 years.

[Rick Williams]

Any waterman's safety plan has to include careful preparation and having insurance is one of those cautions. I used to think it was for sissies until I had an engine problem late at night with a boat load of tired people.
If you have it, you won't need it.

[evbeck]

If you travel on the ICW on larger boats with draft of 5' or more, towing coverage only way to go. We have used BoatUS coverage twice - once with a split exhaust elbow and once after Hurricane Matthew when we were damaged. If you need it, you will really need it.

[Tayana42]

Towed for a mechanical failure. I have a TowBoatUS membership. In nearly 50 years of sailing (East cost, Minnesota, West Coast) I’ve gotten myself off sandbars and mud banks and never needed a tow until 2 years ago. Coming back toward my harbor at 9:30 PM with my wife, son and granddaughter on board. There was zero wind and the engine began to overheat. We were in no danger and could have waited for the wind to come up in the morning but my granddaughter had homework to do and school the next day. TowBostUS towed us in (about 3 miles) then hip tied and put us into our slip. Very professionally done. No bill at all.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Where we differ is that my understanding of the "fellow sportsman" is that the responsibility for aiding other boaters is mutual. Maybe I need to rethink that, as the overall tone of the replies leads me to believe that times may have changed.

I wonder how much we differ. If a boat is in peril, yes, I'll help them keep off a shore, or a reef, or if they can be pulled off a grounding - yeah, I'll do that. But where do you draw the line? I've read frequent accounts of a fishing boat spinning a hub, or damaging lower unit, or battery dead, and needing a 3-4 hour tow back to their ramp and trailer. There's typically no peril there, just them not wanting to spend the money for a commercial tow. And instead taking advantage of your responsibility to aid a boater. So again, they tried to save $180 tow membership, but are now liable for a $700 bill if towed, but instead want you to devote your fishing day to towing them back to the ramp.

I had a friend that did exactly this - offered to tow a disabled boat to the ramp that was about a half hour away. Unfortunately they launched at another ramp that was 3 hr tow away on the other side of the bay. He towed them there. I would have said I'll get you to the close ramp, and you can take a cab to go get your truck and trailer. He was too nice of a guy. And when they got to the further ramp, he got a thanks and a wave goodbye.

And they learned what from this? What about their own personal responsibility? Why would they ever buy insurance when they can depend on "fellow sportsmen" to essentially be their insurance?

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by Jammer

A Sea Tow boat passed me the other day and it made me wonder about their service.


Their memberships, popular among occasional pleasure boaters in the USA, are $180 per year and entitle the member to free on-water assistance under a fairly limited set of specific circumstances and within certain financial limits.


It seems to me that most of the situations they cover are ones that I would expect to be able to resolve without their help.



The inland lakes where I've spent most of my time until now have (or had in the years I was there) a fairly strong mutual aid culture. People would get tows from passing boats if they were disabled.


Are they worth a closer look? Or are they just for the unprepared and inexperienced?

have a friend in jersey went out for tuna and never renewed his policy.. cost him 9k to get home

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

if worst comes to worst, you WILL get towed, by another boater, by the Lifeboat, or even by the Coast Guard. If you run aground over here (or lose your engine or whatever) and call the Coast Guard, they take it as a serious matter and immediately start finding a tow for you, and will even send out one of their own assets if necessary. The attitude is totally different.

Thats the way it was when I was growing up in the Panhandle of Fl.
However there are now Commercial Businesses that make their money towing boats, so now the Government agencies don’t, or I assure you they will find themselves in court, just as the Army’s MAST program did.
Start a Seatow / Boat Europe business in Northern Europe and I bet you will have a similar result.

I bet you USCG can’t render assistance until the Commercial business declines it. For years the Army MAST operated along with the Hospital Lifeflight in Savannah, Mercedes has an accident, Lifeflight launches, old beat up car or bad weather? MAST launched, but MAST would only go after Lifeflight was offered and declined the mission.
Hasn’t been a MAST in Savannah for decades.
There is however apparently one still in Hawaii?

[kelbylinn]

I've always carried both BoatUS and SeaTow. I've only used BoatUS once due to losing one of the engines, and SeaTow wouldn't tow saying I could still maneuver with one engine. Boat US had no problems and helped me with a tight parking destination. I still will carry both though because I have found that regionally each company can have a different presence. Both are around $180./yr so peace of mind is cheap to me.

[Don C L]

Milquetoast... now there’s a word you don’t see everyday... my grandmother made it so delicious... cinnamon on top... but I digress...
I used to pride myself on never needing a tow... until a delivery a couple years ago when we were about a mile offshore, 30 miles from home and no wind and overheating engine at 3am. I called em up and about an hour and a half later an unusually cheerful lad shows up in his bright red boat, throws me a line and we were home before breakfast. AAA of the sea! ( BoatUS) No charge, except for membership of course. I must have had some kind of premonition because I signed up before leaving, and glad I did.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I wonder how much we differ. If a boat is in peril, yes, I'll help them keep off a shore, or a reef, or if they can be pulled off a grounding - yeah, I'll do that. But where do you draw the line? I've read frequent accounts of a fishing boat spinning a hub, or damaging lower unit, or battery dead, and needing a 3-4 hour tow back to their ramp and trailer. There's typically no peril there, just them not wanting to spend the money for a commercial tow. And instead taking advantage of your responsibility to aid a boater. So again, they tried to save $180 tow membership, but are now liable for a $700 bill if towed, but instead want you to devote your fishing day to towing them back to the ramp.

I had a friend that did exactly this - offered to tow a disabled boat to the ramp that was about a half hour away. Unfortunately they launched at another ramp that was 3 hr tow away on the other side of the bay. He towed them there. I would have said I'll get you to the close ramp, and you can take a cab to go get your truck and trailer. He was too nice of a guy. And when they got to the further ramp, he got a thanks and a wave goodbye.

And they learned what from this? What about their own personal responsibility? Why would they ever buy insurance when they can depend on "fellow sportsmen" to essentially be their insurance?

I look at this quite differently.

We sailors traditionally have a strong, even superstitious belief, belief to the point of fanaticism, in "what goes around, comes around."

So I not only help a fellow sailor in peril, I am just as eager to help a fellow sailor avoid an expensive commercial towing bill. If someone on the next pontoon has an electrical problem, I don't tell him to call an electrician (although I'll gladly give him numbers if he wants them) -- I jump on board with my electrical bag. If a sailor from far away doesn't have charts or tidal stream maps, I don't tell him he should be better prepared next time, I just give him some old ones I have lying around, or let him photograph mine on his cell phone. Not hypothetical, but real examples. If he needs a tow, then I put himself in his shoes -- $2000! Wow! -- and roll up my sleeves and throw him a line, and am very glad to be able to help.

For the whole cruising world to rely on commercial towing means we have to somehow support a whole infrastructure of professionals ready at all times to do it. That is expensive. If we simply towed each other, it is much cheaper and more rational.

I have absolutely no problem towing a fellow sailor to help him avoid what I know would be a painful hit for most of us -- a multi thousand dollar towing bill. I am even glad to spend a few hours doing it.

It's not only a question of "what goes around, comes around." I sail for fun, doing what professional mariners do for money, for free, or rather I pay to have a chance to do it. Navigation, boat maintenance, anchoring, pilotage, crew management -- we PAY to do all of this, rather than getting paid. What's the difference to add to that "towing other sailors"? It's just one more in a long line of maritime jobs. So I do not only to help, but because it's an interesting challenge, and like everything I do on my boat, i find fun in it.

As to the risks -- who cares? We risk damage every time we go out. I have insurance to cover the stuff which I can't easily repair myself. I don't begrudge my fellow sailor taking some kind of risk to help him.


People's attitudes about this vary a lot by country. In the U.S., it seems people are much more comfortable just letting other people deal with their own problems. Over here, when someone has an engine conk out or runs aground, he calls the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard swings into action and, if there is no immediate peril to life, gets on the radio and asks if there is someone nearby who can help. Usually there is a DELUGE of offers of people willing to go even far out of their way to help, even if it's just to help a dumb fisherman who ran out of fuel. The Coast Guard sorts through the various offers and chooses the one best suited. If there isn't a good private solution, then the Lifeboat is despatched. Or a CG cutter. Even if it's just someone who has run out of fuel. I like this culture and I firmly believe that this is more in line with the old traditions of the sea.

[roverhi]

Had the unfortunate experience of needing a tow of less than a 1/2 mile. Managed to sail and tie up in the vacant Tow Boat slip before the wind completely died after the engine quit. Had to wait for more than 4 hours for the tow boat to get back from a service call somwhere else in the bay. Filling out the paper work took longer than the tow. Only cost me $500 for a 15 minute job. Probably not a bad idea to pay the $150 plus or minus to get the insurance when you buy a new boat till you can get some experience with the boat's quirks.

Have managed to own and sail boats for more than a 1/2 century without ever needing a tow. I'd just purchased this boat and was taking it a few miles from one marina to another. Didn't have a dinghy on board or would've sailed to the new slip, dropped the hook and warped myself in. The times i've run aground, rowed an anchor out, waited for the tide to come back in and winched myself off. Have been lucky and only had one other engine failure but that was a 26' boat and had a straight in upwind slip that I could sail into.

[Woodland Hills]

It's not for use IF you run aground, but for WHEN you run aground. And like any other insurance of any kind, it seems like it is way over priced....... Until you need it.