Suicide aboard - Dominica

[imus]

https://dominicanewsonline.com/news/...thin-two-days/

Hi all - I wanted to draw attention to a death that occurred earlier this year in Dominica aboard a Cape George 36. Has anyone had other news regarding this incident or anything like in it in the Caribbean?

The individual involved was my ASA instructor with whom I did a week-long course in the San Juan Islands. He bought the Cape George a few years ago and it appears he was living the dream.

The article states that a 48 year old male from Washington state was found dead, hanging from the neck from the ceiling in his yacht. If you scroll down to the comments section, some commenters express incredulity at this chain of events, particularly since they also happened contemporaneously with another suicide ashore sharing the same M.O.

It all seems so strange to me - the individual in question did not strike me as a candidate for this. Nor does it seem a simple or effective way to end things on a boat, unless you did it out on deck. Maybe through a hatch. At any rate, extremely sad and I am dejected to hear this.

Anyone know or hear anything ?

[Nekton73]

I know nothing of the incident, but as I read your post I thought of the instructors and skippers I have sailed with and finding out such a thing had happened to one of them would really impact me. My condolences and best regards as you work through this.

[rhysmate]

Sorry but I think I met Sammer in Lanzarote in November 2022? Did he cross the Atlantic last season?

[imus]

Yes that could have been him - he bought the boat in Italy and was sailing it to the US.

[rhysmate]

Originally Posted by imus

Yes that could have been him - he bought the boat in Italy and was sailing it to the US.

That is heartbreaking news. Sammer was a very nice man, and I helped him change his engine mounts with some advice on DIY. Last we spoke he was asking about
Check out paperwork for Martinique and Dominica.

I hope his family get some closure on this, he seemed to me like a very solid and happy individual

[Skipper Kenny]

Funny how quickly they ruled it a suicide.
Very suspicious

[Jim Woodall]

My wife and I were anchored in that same area only a couple of weeks later for 2 days. We never heard of the incident. I agree it is unusual, and somewhat suspicious, that there were two suicides in relatively close proximity during a tight timeframe.

I have been involved in hundreds of homicide and suicide investigations over a 35 year period. As noted earlier, the best practice is to always treat a death investigation as a homicide, until and unless foul play by another person (or persons) is ruled out. In reality, suicide can usually be determined fairly early on, if competent investigators are involved in the case. 98% of what one sees on television, and in the movies is pure fantasy. Although, investigators must always be aware that the death investigation they are working on may fall into the 2%.

Suicide by hanging is one of the most common methods of suicide. I have been involved in investigations in which the victim had hanged him or herself with a telephone cord in a phone booth (caught on video), from the corner of an open door, from the corner of a bookcase, and even from a door knob. Unfortunately, suicide by hanging is very easy to accomplish, if one desires to commit suicide. In almost every case I was involved in, family members, friends, and loved ones did not believe that the person would commit suicide. When someone says a person “is just not the type of person to do that”, they are almost always incorrect. We simply don’t know what is going on in a person’s mind when they become desperate. People commit suicide, even after appearing happy only hours before or while making detailed plans for the future. Suicide is sometimes planned well in advance; however, it is often done on impulse. In my experience, I never remember a case in which a homicide was ultimately ruled when hanging was the mechanism of death. Obviously, there might have been instances when we were fooled by a perpetrator but it is highly unlikely, when a competent investigation is performed.

Although the information in the article is very sparse, a person alone on a boat found hanged is highly indicative of suicide, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary. Regardless of what those who may have known the person believe, suicide is an alternative most people will seriously consider under certain circumstances. Unless there is something particularly unusual about the scene, or evidence that suggests homicide, suicide is the most logical conclusion.
—Occam’s Razor—

Hopefully, the investigators are competent, and they consider the fact that another apparent suicide nearby may represent an unusual coincidence which justifies a further investigation. In the comments after the article, it was mentioned that the FBI might become involved. In my experience, that would be incredibly unusual. Perhaps because it is a US citizen in another country, it is more likely. However, the FBI does not generally do death investigations, they are left to local authorities in the vast majority of cases. Although the FBI certainly has the ability to do excellent death, investigations, at least in the United States, many local law enforcement agencies are more well-versed in homicide and suicide investigations. I would be very interested to know if the local authorities in Dominica have furthered their investigation, or if their preliminary findings have become final.

[Chotu]

knowing a tiny bit about this from suicidal people I have been in relationships with, Jim is absolutely correct above.

someone’s outward appearance and demeanor has nothing to do with their inward turmoil. You will never know if someone is a suicidal type of person or not. They don’t show it publicly. it’s a private matter for them and people that are extremely close to them only.

Random tangent: The one thing I learned about it that was very counterintuitive was that it’s not a bad thing. Many times people are suffering suffer their entire lives and it’s their only escape from suffering. It’s amazing to actually understand this because as a non-suicidal person you would not think that is the case. You would think there is always hope. They could get better. that suicide is the worst possible outcome. that’s not how they see it. in their mind, it’s the only way to end the constant mental anguish and suffering that they experience nearly 24 hours a day. they often look forward to being released from all of the pain and suffering.

so I am with Jim on this. You can’t judge a book by its public cover.

[Jim Woodall]

One clarification from my earlier post, this statement was not clear:

“In my experience, I never remember a case in which a homicide was ultimately ruled out when hanging was the mechanism of death.”

It should have read:

“In my experience, I never remember a case in which a homicide was not ultimately ruled out when hanging was the mechanism of death.”

Therefore, I was never involved in an investigation involving hanging that was ruled a homicide.

[imus]

Thank you everyone for your perspective. Thank you Jim especially as you have a background in this and it is helpful to see it from that point of view. I would have had no idea hanging is such a common method of suicide - it seems one of the more traumatic varieties.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by imus

Thank you everyone for your perspective. Thank you Jim especially as you have a background in this and it is helpful to see it from that point of view. I would have had no idea hanging is such a common method of suicide - it seems one of the more traumatic varieties.

The two things we saw most were overdosing on some substance, and unfortunately, gunshot wounds. Suicide by hanging was often the choice of those without access to the other two alternatives, especially men.

[Skipper Kenny]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

Although the FBI certainly has the ability to do excellent death, investigations, at least in the United States, many local law enforcement agencies are more well-versed in homicide and suicide investigations.

What does geography have to do with a homicide investigation?

That statement makes no sense, especially when you consider that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has the funding level of a first world nation.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by Skipper Kenny

What does geography have to do with a homicide investigation?

That statement makes no sense, especially when you consider that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has the funding level of a first world nation.

It makes sense if you know about criminal law. The FBI has limited jurisdiction, just like every agency whether federal or state. The FBI has absolutely no jurisdiction in Dominica. Jurisdiction is usually based on GEOGRAPHY. The Dominican government could allow the FBI to investigate if it chooses, but would not be required to allow an FBI investigation. The fact a US citizen is involved does not give any agency of the United States government jurisdiction in another country, unless granted by that country. The same is true when a crime happens in the United States. There are many crimes that take place and the FBI has no jurisdiction.

One area the FBI seldom gets involved in is homicide investigations. First, because it seldom has the required jurisdiction and secondarily they leave homicide investigations to local agencies because they are usually more well-versed in those investigations. I handled more than 150 murder cases in my career and was involved in 200 - 300 death investigations. The FBI only became involved in five or six of those. The US Department of Justice decided to do a dual prosecution in only one case. (I obtained a state life sentence, and then the feds obtained a federal life sentence on the same defendant for the same murder.).Even when involved, they left the bulk of the investigation to the local authorities and the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI). There has to be a federal nexus for the FBI to have jurisdiction. Again, when it comes to criminal law, geography has a lot to do with jurisdiction. The funding level of the FBI has nothing to do with its jurisdiction.

[Skipper Kenny]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

It makes sense if you know about criminal law. The FBI has limited jurisdiction, just like every agency whether federal or state. The FBI has absolutely no jurisdiction in Dominica. Jurisdiction is usually based on GEOGRAPHY. The Dominican government could allow the FBI to investigate if it chooses, but would not be required to allow an FBI investigation. The fact a US citizen is involved does not give any agency of the United States government jurisdiction in another country, unless granted by that country. The same is true when a crime happens in the United States. There are many crimes that take place and the FBI has no jurisdiction.

One area the FBI seldom gets involved in is homicide investigations. First, because it seldom has the required jurisdiction and secondarily they leave homicide investigations to local agencies because they are usually more well-versed in those investigations. I handled more than 150 murder cases in my career and was involved in 200 - 300 death investigations. The FBI only became involved in five or six of those. The US Department of Justice decided to do a dual prosecution in only one case. (I obtained a state life sentence, and then the feds obtained a federal life sentence on the same defendant for the same murder.).Even when involved, they left the bulk of the investigation to the local authorities and the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI). There has to be a federal nexus for the FBI to have jurisdiction. Again, when it comes to criminal law, geography has a lot to do with jurisdiction. The funding level of the FBI has nothing to do with its jurisdiction.

Your argument was with ability, not jurisprudence.

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by Skipper Kenny

Your argument was with ability, not jurisprudence.

Jurisdiction is a cornerstone of jurisprudence.