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fillintheblank · 12-07-2021, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayiii

If there are any owners out there with late model owners version 450's that are willing to sell at $100,000 off market value, please contact me!!!

Same but I will take and older as even with the 100k off it would still be tight money wise...

Eh I like leopards better

smj · 12-07-2021, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sail IC

FP repaired the boats with osmosis when they had the problem. Mine was out of warranty, 7 years, second owner, and FP still paid the cost around $22k to fix it.
Hopefully Lagoon will too even this is a more expensive repair.

Good point, and a respectable boat builder.

more · 12-07-2021, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayiii

If there are any owners out there with late model owners version 450's that are willing to sell at $100,000 off market value, please contact me!!!

and me I pay 150000 € with broken bulkhead or charter boat heavy-ligh-medium use but clean and high gross polish

Sand crab · 12-07-2021, 14:10

Lagoon still makes the 450 sport top, the 450 flybridge was superseded by the 46.
https://www.cata-lagoon.com/en

zstine · 12-07-2021, 14:55

Boats are built to specifications like Loyds or DVN-GL. The specifications define the engineering methods to analyze the boat structure and factors of safety are defined and should be high for main bulkheads. Clearly there was an issue with the design/engineering. It may be a mistake at Beneteau/Lagoon and/or the Specification company, which often also certifies the design.

It is obvious some error has been made in the structural design of the 450 bulkhead. I think CE 'A' classification should absolutely be suspended for any 450 that doesn't have reinforced bulkheads. And an investigation as to the root cause must be performed. The issue could be an error in a Loyd Spec that can affect future designs in any brand.

Repair costs being born by Beneteau/Lagoon has nothing to do with 12mo New boat warranty. That's for minor workmanship/production flaws like a headliner falling down or a light switch not working. This is a failure of the boat to do basic design functions. Like a 4WD truck only having 2WD. Lagoon is crazy stupid to not pay to fix this!! It's going to cost them way more in reputation and law suits. And if it is an error in the Spec they built to, then Lagoon can sue the Spec company for damages.

jim King · 12-07-2021, 15:16

I was going to buy a Lagoon 450 back in 2018 and checked them out at the Miami boat show. The French dealer looked down his nose at me and would hardly answer any questions I had. I ended up going with the brand I new (Leopard). I had owned a Leopard 450 for 4 years pre Irma and was ready to shop the marked. I am soooo glad I bought my Leopard 450 now that I'm hearing about the problems with the Lagoon 450. on top of it all the Leopard 450 cost me $100,000 less than the 450 Lagoon due to the dollar to Euro conversion.
Love my Leopard

keelsidedown · 12-07-2021, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayiii

The 450 is still in production

Factory tour now required... for the exact hull that will be delivered

David B · 12-07-2021, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by keelsidedown

So, Parlay went full [...].

I can't imagine lagoon 45s catching a bid within 65% of the pre covid level.

Question is: now that we know where to look and what to look for and know the hell that has to be endured to fix the design flaw, would any of us accept a 35% discount?

I guess we will find out when yachtworld, et. al. start listing fresh inventory again in another 8 months.

I have missed the issue you are referring to. Assuming this was a YouTube episode somewhere?
Could someone please enlighten me - sounds interesting.

Thanks,

David

Kit_L · 13-07-2021, 01:27

The design decisions, coupled with the construction methods, are terrifying to me. And the prices of these cats new is a whole level above where I have been looking. I may be naïve, but I had absolutely no idea that expensive modern boats could be constructed so poorly. I am very grateful for this thread, because it will make me that much more careful about getting the next boat.

Sand crab · 13-07-2021, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

I have missed the issue you are referring to. Assuming this was a YouTube episode somewhere?
Could someone please enlighten me - sounds interesting.

Thanks,

David

I think he's referring to this latest vid. Parley puts the blame on Lagoon and the architects/designers. Lagoon is trying to blame it on everything else and some online are blaming everything on Parley. These vids are dated back in April btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoXWKz4Odsg

Alistair242 · 13-07-2021, 02:55

How are the bulkheads done in the other Lagoons from that same period? You would think that they would be the same. Boat builders generally employ similar designs and methods throughout their fleets.
This is going to hit them hard and the discontent is growing. Them not coming to the party is only making it a lot worse.

goboatingnow · 13-07-2021, 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by zstine

Boats are built to specifications like Loyds or DVN-GL. The specifications define the engineering methods to analyze the boat structure and factors of safety are defined and should be high for main bulkheads. Clearly there was an issue with the design/engineering. It may be a mistake at Beneteau/Lagoon and/or the Specification company, which often also certifies the design.

It is obvious some error has been made in the structural design of the 450 bulkhead. I think CE 'A' classification should absolutely be suspended for any 450 that doesn't have reinforced bulkheads. And an investigation as to the root cause must be performed. The issue could be an error in a Loyd Spec that can affect future designs in any brand.

Repair costs being born by Beneteau/Lagoon has nothing to do with 12mo New boat warranty. That's for minor workmanship/production flaws like a headliner falling down or a light switch not working. This is a failure of the boat to do basic design functions. Like a 4WD truck only having 2WD. Lagoon is crazy stupid to not pay to fix this!! It's going to cost them way more in reputation and law suits. And if it is an error in the Spec they built to, then Lagoon can sue the Spec company for damages.

Lagoon would be building to RCD specifications based on a set of quite rigorous ISO standards. But such systems are NOT quality control standards. Typically boatbuilders can certify a “ standard “ boat and then each copy doesn’t get individually tested, inspected or certified . My understanding is Groupe Beneteau has CE process in house , ie it’s own “named” body

I suspect that the production pressure lagoon has been under in the past few years has led to cutting corners , and new hires being less trained etc. It’s no excuse of course

Beneteau are foremost in the liner/plexus build method . It always concerns me and I’ve owned Beneteaus . It works of close tolerances are maintained but there too much “ out of sight out of mind “ issues in my view

The trouble is price points especially for the charter market. Once a company makes your model for the charter market you really need to think again

**GordMay** · 13-07-2021, 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Are Lagoon 450's CE category A classification.

Yes, they are so listed.

HighTemp · 13-07-2021, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistair242

How are the bulkheads done in the other Lagoons from that same period? You would think that they would be the same. Boat builders generally employ similar designs and methods throughout their fleets.
This is going to hit them hard and the discontent is growing. Them not coming to the party is only making it a lot worse.

I would expect that all of the boats made at that facility are assembled in the exact same manner. No doubt Lagoon has an established manufacturing process in place as well as a quality management system. Those processes/ programs ( at least in my business ) are facility, if not company wide. As I understand it, the larger boats ( 52' and upwards ) are built in a different location, but I would bet the same process is in place at that facility as well.