Lagoon cats now on discount...

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by HighTemp

No doubt this will effect resale of L450's. I suspect that Lagoon wants to avoid anything that could possibly be interpreted as assuming responsibility for these failures. The L450 has been out of production for a while now, and I suspect that as far as Lagoon is concerned their financial responsibility has ended, and they certainly could not care less about diminished resale value that existing owners will have to deal with.

The 450 is still in production

[sailingchiro]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Well if they made 1000 of these 450's and just half have this issue, you're talking between $25-30 million to fix (assuming it can be fixed for just $50k per boat)

But they received over $500 million for the boats. Repairing the boats is the cost of doing business. Think about all the car manufacturer recalls. We had one on a 15 year old Honda van.

Their reputation will be hurt much more than $25-30 million.

All of their boats will be called into question. I am guessing more manufactures than Lagoon glues in their bulkheads. This will most hurt the parent company.

This will become a class action lawsuit and the liability insurance of the company will defend the case. If they lose, the insurance will pay. The company will pay the increased premiums.

[nextis12]

When Lagoon comes up with a fix what will it cost $50,000 a boat?? Took Parlay (2 skilled people) 5 weeks at $200ish an hour thats pushing $80,000 to $100,000 a boat, but I would think a standardized process with less skilled labor would cut it in half. 100 boats at $50,000 is a $5,000,000 hit. If I had a $1,000,000 boat whats another $50k 😣 I’m not happy but it’s manageable.

The 450 is a nice boat

[Kamen]

Originally Posted by nextis12

When Lagoon comes up with a fix what will it cost $50,000 a boat?? Took Parlay (2 skilled people) 5 weeks at $200ish an hour thats pushing $80,000 to $100,000 a boat, but I would think a standardized process with less skilled labor would cut it in half. 100 boats at $50,000 is a $5,000,000 hit. If I had a $1,000,000 boat whats another $50k [emoji21] I’m not happy but it’s manageable.

The 450 is a nice boat

100 boats? You are missing a zero.

[HighTemp]

Originally Posted by crayiii

The 450 is still in production

I would have thought that with the introduction of the L46, that they would have ceased production of the 450. Doesn't say a lot about their confidence in the L46 does it?

Heck, FP appears to discontinue production as soon as the replacement boat is ready to go! They even notify those with boats already on order that they will be getting the updated boat instead of the one they originally ordered.

As an example, a number of folks had Lucia's on order but received the new Isla 40 instead. I do believe the same is happening with some of those that had Saona's on order. They will be getting the updated Tanna now.

[goboatingnow]

I suspect lagoon will do nothing for the existing owners. The exception will be a few that have public exposure.

Beneteau largely devolves their warranty to dealers and dealers are notoriously slow to act

I had to get beneteau involved to correct a list on my new 393. It took me 6 months and I eventually doorstepped their sales director at the Cannes boat show

( I then had the Beneteau men in a van and they knew exactly how to fix the problem )

[contrail]

Originally Posted by sailingchiro

But they received over $500 million for the boats. Repairing the boats is the cost of doing business. Think about all the car manufacturer recalls. We had one on a 15 year old Honda van.

Their reputation will be hurt much more than $25-30 million.

All of their boats will be called into question. I am guessing more manufactures than Lagoon glues in their bulkheads. This will most hurt the parent company.

This will become a class action lawsuit and the liability insurance of the company will defend the case. If they lose, the insurance will pay. The company will pay the increased premiums.

Not all countries handle lawsuits/class action/liability insurance the same way.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by contrail

Not all countries handle lawsuits/class action/liability insurance the same way.

Most countries don’t allow class action suits.

[fillintheblank]

The US allows class action lawsuits because the lawyer get the laws written, and in a normal class action law suit the only person who comes out ahead are the lawyers.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by more

And why Lagoon to repair and pay this when lagoon pay the dealer 194 million € (to this 1000 lagoon 450) to maintain,repair,pay all warranty claim. also in contract say dealer must keep this amount in reserve for warranty by local law needs. We charter receive 15-20% discount for No warranty this is almost 150000 € per 1 Lagoon 450

Exactly, so the dealer or charter base took over the responsibility for warranty claims. It is their problem to sue Beneteau for design failures and ask for more money or swallow the repair costs and provide the warranty service. This can take a long time until it is settled and solved. Up to then, individual case by case fixes will probably take place and not all 450 will get an upgrade of the bulkheads yet - until there is an recall from the factory.

Basically the regulator authority is in the game as certifyer for the vessel's CE. If they withdraw the certification of the model, this would hurt really everybody.

Even a recall would hurt everybody, simply because then all insurance companies will insist the 450 has to go to the next port and stay until fixed, basically screwing everybody out there for an extended time (charter bookings, individual travel plans). Sometimes individual solutions may be benefical for all involved instead of big waves, and not all vessel are not seaworthy disabled or severe damaged and need immediate action.

[fillintheblank]

I stated many pages ago on the main bulkhead thread this will effect every lagoons value.

Even non 450 boats, people will see lagoon responce, and will probably shy away from the brand.

As for are they on sale, personally even a 450 that is inspected even if I got to watch the inspection with my own eyes, is worth 75-100 k less. The only way the "full" value is maintained is if its been fixed/reinforced already. And I dont mean a little metal and screws, I mean more wood and more glass. I see it as watching a guy jump off a bridge and die, just because I have not died yet does not mean I wont if I jump.

Yes most people will wire a new switch, maybe even fix a serious case of dock rash. But I would be surprised if 5% would do what colin has.

[Morndenkainen]

Originally Posted by nextis12

When Lagoon comes up with a fix what will it cost $50,000 a boat?? Took Parlay (2 skilled people) 5 weeks at $200ish an hour...

The 450 is a nice boat

While Colin and Jamie are undoubtedly skilled, it's their attitude I admire most. I really don't think their repair took them a solid 5 weeks of work though. I see a good porting of that time being, going back and forth with Lagoon, the architects, waiting on responses, sourcing materials, and figuring out how to take apart a boat that wasn't meant to be disassembled past a point and not having access to lagoons proprietary information. Plus, a manufacturer isn't going to be paying it's tech's $100/hr each.

TBH, Lagoon's cost to repair these boats would probably be under $15K each on the high side. Figure in an arbitrary high of 200 hours of labor per boat @$20/hr, and $2.5K in materials since they're buying in bulk. Other than that, it's just the cost of facilities and utilities if they decide to do people right and fix the boats.. And the costs will drop as their workers find faster ways to do the job or run into boats that are less ****ed than Parlay was. (I'd be pretty blown away if Colin read this and decided to share his repair time/cost on Parlay to see how close I am.)

Don't get me wrong, $15,000,000 to fix 1,000 boats is still a big chunk of change, but I really think the costs involved in this repair are overblown. If the guys at Lagoon would get out of panic-mode, I have a feeling they might realize it's not as bad as it looks numbers wise to just open up a lane at their yard for repairs, or rent space at a place like the yard in Panama that Colin's at and just start going to town repairing all the boats...

That said, I still submitted my offer on a leopard instead of a lagoon. I want to get sailing, not sit around and wait in line for months on a repair.

[Sail IC]

FP repaired the boats with osmosis when they had the problem. Mine was out of warranty, 7 years, second owner, and FP still paid the cost around $22k to fix it.
Hopefully Lagoon will too even this is a more expensive repair.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by fillintheblank

As for are they on sale, personally even a 450 that is inspected even if I got to watch the inspection with my own eyes, is worth 75-100 k less. The only way the "full" value is maintained is if its been fixed/reinforced already. And I dont mean a little metal and screws, I mean more wood and more glass.

If there are any owners out there with late model owners version 450's that are willing to sell at $100,000 off market value, please contact me!!!

[more]

Originally Posted by contrail

Not all countries handle lawsuits/class action/liability insurance the same way.

class action lawsuit in France possible, but i think for this case is not allowed
First 95% Lagoon 450 is not in warranty period
99 % this Lagoon 450 owner do not buy new boat with the warranty they buy ex charter boat what newer have warranty because commercial use boat and by sign on contract original owner agree to do not have a warranty.
After commercially use private pleasure craft, pleasure craft is for recycling .engine after 5000 hour is for recycling because don't compile EU emission and this engine don't have a certificate for being in traffic. The certificate is issued only for 5000 hour

Normally also I sale ex charter boat for private use, nobody put in the garbage this Yanmar and Volvo Penta for 12000-18000 hour and then exchange block for couple thousand €, Overhaul engine we do only on a new boat what be underwater