Low friction Rings in lieu of turning blocks?

[LouK]

I have a 40’ O’Day and want to know if I can use a low friction ring to carry sheets for an asym spinnaker in lieu of purchasing turning blocks? I appreciate the simplicity of being able to remove a sheet from a turning block but boy are they pricey!

[thinwater]

LFRs are really either for Dyneema or small deflections (barberhaulers). They aren't used for large angle turning blocks and polyester sheets (too much friction for something that is trimmed frequently).


Garhauer makes reasonably (?) priced snatch blocks.
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/...ch-block-60sn/
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/...ch-block-70sn/

[LouK]

Thanks for the advice, agreed Garhauer makes good stuff & they’re nice to work with.

[marcjsmith]

Lou,

for what its worth. I have used LFR in place of snatch blocks for my asym on my Moody for the last few seasons with no ill effects. I'm not racing and it trims fine. the sheet angle is less than 90*

my asym has a luff of 55 and a foot of 26

the LFR are tylaska with 1/8" dynema line connecting the LFR to the snap shackle on the toe rail.

the first pic was version one with a loop of 12 strand poly. the second picture is dynema

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

Lou,

for what its worth. I have used LFR in place of snatch blocks for my asym on my Moody for the last few seasons with no ill effects. I'm not racing and it trims fine. the sheet angle is less than 90*

my asym has a luff of 55 and a foot of 26

the LFR are tylaska with 1/8" dynema line connecting the LFR to the snap shackle on the toe rail.

the first pic was version one with a loop of 12 strand poly. the second picture is dynema

Noooooooooooooo………. Nooooooooooooooooo……….. not metal snap shackles to attach low friction rings! Hitch a Dyneema loop, no metal!

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Noooooooooooooo………. Nooooooooooooooooo……….. not metal snap shackles to attach low friction rings! Hitch a Dyneema loop, no metal!

I don't see anything wrong with the pic that was shown, it's a reasonable set-up that can be moved to another spot.
I for one would not be running Dynema thru those oval cutouts on the aluminum toerail.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Noooooooooooooo………. Nooooooooooooooooo……….. not metal snap shackles to attach low friction rings! Hitch a Dyneema loop, no metal!

Hi Jedi,

You've posted some really great stuff over time. Could you educate me and tell me what is incorrect about hooking the LFR to the toerail via a metal snap shackle connected to the LFR via a dyneema tie?

Thanks,
Ron - S/V Just Lucky

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Noooooooooooooo………. Nooooooooooooooooo……….. not metal snap shackles to attach low friction rings! Hitch a Dyneema loop, no metal!

I agree no metal to the lfr. But if you look at the pic. It’s snap shackle to dynema to lfr.

So no point loads on the lfr

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by thinwater

LFRs are really either for Dyneema or small deflections (barberhaulers). They aren't used for large angle turning blocks and polyester sheets (too much friction for something that is trimmed frequently).


Garhauer makes reasonably (?) priced snatch blocks.
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/...ch-block-60sn/
https://www.garhauermarine.com/shop/...ch-block-70sn/

Wow they are expensive, anthal makes some for half the price. Paid euro for 12mm block.
But yes I would use LFR too. Just replace blocks by LFR for the reefing lines on the main sail and they work well too. No dyneema lines.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

I agree no metal to the lfr. But if you look at the pic. It’s snap shackle to dynema to lfr.

So no point loads on the lfr

I think Jedi is saying that if you have a LFR on one end of your Dyneema and a loop on the other, you could simply thread the LFR though the toerail and loop and be done. No need for a $40 paint scratcher to be attached

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

Could you educate me and tell me what is incorrect about hooking the LFR to the toerail via a metal snap shackle connected to the LFR via a dyneema tie?

The metal shackle will wear/deform the aluminum toerail, will put a groove in it (and take off the anodizing) . A Dyneema loop or cow hitch or soft shackle will be much kinder to the aluminum toerail, will not damage it like the metal shackle.

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

The metal shackle will wear/deform the aluminum toerail, will put a groove in it (and take off the anodizing) . A Dyneema loop or cow hitch or soft shackle will be much kinder to the aluminum toerail, will not damage it like the metal shackle.

I would think the toe rail would not be kind to the dynema

[Benz]

^^A slit piece of water hose put on the toerail hole will protect a dyneema loop from cutting. The girth-hitched loop keeps the piece of hose on. I've seen it done, and it looks ok.

[s/v Jedi]

Here’s the whole idea about using soft attachments, of which low frictions rings are part: they are -soft-.

This means no metal.

Normally they point you to soft shackles to replace metal shackles, but for a low friction ring in this setup, the best option is a Dyneema loop spliced onto the ring. You then cow hitch it to the toe rail.

See attached picture.

The Dyneema loop will be just fine on the toe rail. If you have damaged the toe rail with hard attachments then take a small metal file or a Dremel and remove the burrs. Dyneema is a very tough material and if you would load test it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the toe rail gets cut by the Dyneema instead of the other way around.

It’s simple: chafe will be obvious, just look at it. There will not be any hidden damage to the Dyneema, it will be right there in plain sight. But I know it will be fine.

Yes you can add a Dyneema chafe sleeve around it but I don’t see the benefit. If the Dyneema wears out in so many years then simply splice a new piece on. The chafe sleeve is just as expensive and will wear out quicker.

Get rid of the metal!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Noooooooooooooo………. Nooooooooooooooooo……….. not metal snap shackles to attach low friction rings! Hitch a Dyneema loop, no metal!

Indeed!