Cheap Multis and Projects

[NevilleCat]

Someone brave in Aus, quick, jump on this HarryProa!
https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...ns/proa/262320

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Someone brave in Aus, quick, jump on this HarryProa!
https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...ns/proa/262320

Dam it, I would kill for a Harry Proa, that price is quite good. It is just half a world away.

[owly]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Dam it, I would kill for a Harry Proa, that price is quite good. It is just half a world away.

It's a monster! Far larger than anything I would want or could afford to own..... I'm a poor man. My passion is to sail the world, and with that in mind the starting point is irrelevant. My multihull of choice would be a biplane junk rigged catamaran in the mid 30's (length). If I were ready to "pull the trigger", I would not hesitate at all to fly to Oz to buy a biplane Simpson or something. Pete Hill's Oryx would have been a great choice for example, and it was in NZ or somewhere in Oceania.
If you want it go for it.........But it will not last long... probably already under contract.

[NevilleCat]

another one for you, much smaller, in NZ
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/b...8?bof=8YDihNQ1https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/b...8?bof=8YDihNQ1

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Dam it, I would kill for a Harry Proa, that price is quite good. It is just half a world away.

please educate me. Why proas? Aren't they just a lazy trimaran?

[owly]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

please educate me. Why proas? Aren't they just a lazy trimaran?

That's exactly what they are ;-) Seriously, they shunt rather than tacking, so they are bidirectional. The leeward hull (hull with the mast) has a LOT of displacement, and is considerably longer than the windward hull. Because they are bidirectional and always sail with the mast on the leeward side, the cabin is always to windward, serving as a counterweight to the sails and mast. How many trimarans have fore and aft rudders? How many trimarans have the mast on the hull away from the accommodations? A ballestron rig? A nice big open bridge deck like a catamaran? How many trimarans have a stubby little main hull and a large displacement long slender ama?


The truth is that it is a very novel design with many innovative features by one of those once in a generation designers who not only thinks outside the box, but hardly seems to be aware that there is a "box". It is no more like a trimaran with one ama cut off than it like a catamaran with one fat hull and one skinny long one, and it hardly resembles a conventional proa either.... Atlantic or Pacific. Take some time and read about the design and study it........ It takes some vision to even be able to recognize visionary design, outside the box original thinking. Most of us find comfort in convention. Innovation in small increments we can accept. The HP is so far outside the box that the box isn't even on the horizon. Every feature is well considered and well thought out. They are fast, stable and reliable, and the design has whipped the stability issues of proas. Their unconventionality will limit adherents to a small group... they are just too far removed from convention. Asymmetry alone will repel a lot of people...."it just doesn't look right".

Conventional thinking is not only OK, but important. It's called "conservatism", and it's what keeps society "on the rails'.


My only issue with the HP designs is size. You will note that the accommodations are relatively small for a 40' boat. The windward hull has the capacity to take stowage, and even accommodate a berth. But of course in the tropics and in good weather, the HUGE open deck is a wonderful feature. It's design shows it's Aussie origin.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

please educate me. Why proas? Aren't they just a lazy trimaran?

There are pacific proas and Atlantic proas. Both are bidirectional a, both shunt instead of tacking. A trimaran is an evolution of a proa. An Atlantic proa has the mast(s) in the windward hull, a pacific proa has the mast(s) in the leeward hull which for the most part is longer than the windward hull.

Both type of proas suffer from lack of carrying significant payload as compared to modern condo- catamarans. You buy a proa for speed and simplicity of sails.
Harryproas is a compromise of western culture need for space and some load carrying ability, and pacific culture of speed and ride ability. You can see them with two stand alone mast Or single masts. It is very different than a traditional pacific proa with a crab-claw or lateen sail that can be scandalized to manage wind force vs sail area.

In the US probably the most famous pacific proas are from Jzero, Jzerro, and Moxie? All built by Russ Brown, son of Jim Brown of the famous trimaran design Searunners. Etc.

The French has two big famous pacific proas that I just can’t remember the big one is like 60 ft long and the other INE is Equilibre about 40ft

[owly]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

There are pacific proas and Atlantic proas. Both are bidirectional a, both shunt instead of tacking. A trimaran is an evolution of a proa. An Atlantic proa has the mast(s) in the windward hull, a pacific proa has the mast(s) in the leeward hull which for the most part is longer than the windward hull.

Both type of proas suffer from lack of carrying significant payload as compared to modern condo- catamarans. You buy a proa for speed and simplicity of sails.
Harryproas is a compromise of western culture need for space and some load carrying ability, and pacific culture of speed and ride ability. You can see them with two stand alone mast Or single masts. It is very different than a traditional pacific proa with a crab-claw or lateen sail that can be scandalized to manage wind force vs sail area.

In the US probably the most famous pacific proas are from Jzero, Jzerro, and Moxie? All built by Russ Brown, son of Jim Brown of the famous trimaran design Searunners. Etc.

The French has two big famous pacific proas that I just can’t remember the big one is like 60 ft long and the other INE is Equilibre about 40ft

I would take issue with the notion that a trimaran is an evolution of a proa... single and double outrigger canoes have been with us since antiquity. A double outrigger that tacks is far simpler than a single outrigger that swaps ends and shunts. It also offers additional stability... it is far more likely that the double outrigger sailing canoe which is simpler and more logical predated the proa. And where does the double canoe fit in?

The Harry Proa is definitely a Pacific Proa... Rob just juggled things a bit, putting the main accommodations on in the windward hull as a permanent counterweight. Installed a rig that was easy to reverse (Ballestron rig), created a rudder system that made sense and simplified shunting, and developed a light weight easy modern infusion based construction.

A look at this 40 footer in NZ makes it obvious at a glance that proas will never take the world by storm as a cruising boat... They simply do not have the interior space relative to their size, or the payload.... they are more of a performance boat.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by owly

I would take issue with the notion that a trimaran is an evolution of a proa... single and double outrigger canoes have been with us since antiquity. A double outrigger that tacks is far simpler than a single outrigger that swaps ends and shunts. It also offers additional stability... it is far more likely that the double outrigger sailing canoe which is simpler and more logical predated the proa. And where does the double canoe fit in?

The Harry Proa is definitely a Pacific Proa... Rob just juggled things a bit, putting the main accommodations on in the windward hull as a permanent counterweight. Installed a rig that was easy to reverse (Ballestron rig), created a rudder system that made sense and simplified shunting, and developed a light weight easy modern infusion based construction.

A look at this 40 footer in NZ makes it obvious at a glance that proas will never take the world by storm as a cruising boat... They simply do not have the interior space relative to their size, or the payload.... they are more of a performance boat.

Agreed that proas will never be popular, catering to a small group - just like trimarans.

There is a big debate and good historical data on what came first - an outrigger or a two outriggers hulls like a Filipina Paraw or Banca. I have 5 books on that and most would agreed on the proa Ir prahu being first. But who knows? Most history has been written by westerners and not the local islanders.

[owly]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Agreed that proas will never be popular, catering to a small group - just like trimarans.

There is a big debate and good historical data on what came first - an outrigger or a two outriggers hulls like a Filipina Paraw or Banca. I have 5 books on that and most would agreed on the proa Ir prahu being first. But who knows? Most history has been written by westerners and not the local islanders.

It's really kind of irrelevant......... Many people experimenting with sailing canoes.... Was it the double canoe, the proa, or the double outrigger canoe that came first..... It probably all happened in a fairly short time span with different people trying different things, perhaps borrowing from each other as well as originating..... The dugout canoe was not stable enough by itself... there were 3 possible solutions. Like people today, all had different ideas of the best solution I suspect. The double canoe was the most labor intensive and largest, the proa the lightest and fastest, but the shunts called for more rigmarole than a tack would, moving the yard from one end to the other as well as the rudder, and required people to hike out for counter weight. The two small amas of the trimaran were more to build, but would offer a measure of security for the solo sailor.... I suspect all three coexisted, and their development was within a fairly limited time frame, and across oceania the origins of all three likely overlapped.... one being developed before another in one place, and vice versa in another.

[purvisgs]

Kelsall 32/34 tri 7k project location ct https://newlondon.craigslist.org/boa...337715241.html

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by purvisgs

Kelsall 32/34 tri 7k project location ct https://newlondon.craigslist.org/boa...337715241.html

A real testament to foam core. 1980 and still looks good.

[Sand crab]

How about a 2006 Nautitech 47 for $65,000. Was hurricane damged but partially fixed up. Actually looks OK for the price.
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...333574308.html

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

How about a 2006 Nautitech 47 for $65,000. Was hurricane damged but partially fixed up. Actually looks OK for the price.
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa...333574308.html

That’s gotta be missing a 1 in front of the price!! Very cheap and even if it needs 50k of work, it’s an absolute bargain. Bl**dy Covid travel restrictions...

N

[VBsail]

44' Trimaran in Virginia - $12,800





https://richmond.craigslist.org/boa/...348632786.html