A reminder to all of us to sail conservatively

[Mike OReilly]

It’s fun and interesting to watch extreme racing, but it really has almost nothing to do with me a cruiser. It’s like saying I can learn something about driving my Honda Fit by watching Formula One race cars.

No real lesson here, but it is fun.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s fun and interesting to watch extreme racing, but it really has almost nothing to do with me a cruiser. It’s like saying I can learn something about driving my Honda Fit by watching Formula One race cars.

No real lesson here, but it is fun.

There's watching, and there's doing. The best way to really learn how to do something is compete.

If you take your Honda Fit to a driving school (like BMW or Porsche driving school) you WILL learn a lot about how your Fit handles- and it could some day save your life. The skills I picked up auto racing have saved my life on the public roads.

I've learned a lot about flying chutes and maximizing CMG by racing, which is useful for cruising.

As far as getting hurt racing, it's not uncommon to come off a race bleeding, but it was while cruising that I busted my knee.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

There's watching, and there's doing. The best way to really learn how to do something is compete.

If you take your Honda Fit to a driving school (like BMW or Porsche driving school) you WILL learn a lot about how your Fit handles- and it could some day save your life. The skills I picked up auto racing have saved my life on the public roads.

I've learned a lot about flying chutes and maximizing CMG by racing, which is useful for cruising.

As far as getting hurt racing, it's not uncommon to come off a race bleeding, but it was while cruising that I busted my knee.

Competition is not always the best way to learn something … but that’s a philosophical point.

I didn’t say racing teaches nothing Tete. All I said was that extreme racing racing machines, with their super-charged and multi-person crews, has very little to do with what I do as a cruiser (or car driver). Of course there are useful things to learn … that’s true of all life experience. But in response to the OPs query/comment, I don’t think this example is much of a reminder to sail conservatively.

[Tornadosailing]

Every single sailor I know has been bruised or given a DNA sample to their sailboat, no matter if it's racing or cruising. The only person I know to have been killed on a sailboat was a cruiser. So in my experience, cruising is more dangerous than racing.

I race my Hobie 33 and we put up as much sail as it will handle on a given day, depending on how much rail meat we can recruit. Sailing conservatively means I get to watch other people finish ahead of me.

I cruise my FP Salina and I reef by the numbers. Different boat, different purpose, different sailing style.

Criticizing the crew of the boat in question for not sailing conservatively during a race is like criticizing a NASCAR driver for driving too fast because there's a possibility he might crash.

[Heg]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

The reason people race is that it is a little reckless. That's the attraction, a bit of adrenaline = excitement. If that's not your thing......no problem, don't do it.

People who race have considered the risk Vs fun factor before they leave the dock and should accept without blame that sometimes stuff goes wrong.

I understand that. There are risks in any sport. However, this is from the RQYS website-

“Wednesday Afternoon Go Sailing is a Squadron institution. Sign-on in the RQ Bar from midday and spend a leisurely afternoon on Waterloo and Moreton Bay’s.”

Seems to be a very different description from the high octane racing that some posters are describing here. That’s all I’m saying

[44'cruisingcat]

What you do on your own boat is up to you.

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

When I race monos, good sailors go well by putting the correct amount of sail up, not just heaps of sail. Too much sail makes the boat slow, whereas in a multi "too much" sail is faster until you get over the edge. The mono makes you more seaworthy by broaching, lying flat or getting too much weather helm. The boat tells you off, then you take some sail off and get back into it. A multi just lets you keep on putting the pedal down until bad things happen - it is up to the crew to back off. Racers don't like backing off - our boats are too well mannered to make us. Great for cruising but not so great for social or beer can racing on a performance cat.

Phil

Everything you're saying could be applied to any sport. F1 cars use downforce to grip as speeds around turns no normal car could manage. F1 drivers aren't given as large a window of slide and sounds from the tires that warn them that they are too close to the edge of control. Managing that smaller window IS the challenge. Yet, many people like watching F1 because it is the ultimate of speed in motor racing.

Same with cats. You have a smaller safety window within which to operate, but the upside is seeing how fast a sailboat can go. Nothing wrong with saying it isn't for you, but it's damn exciting for a lot of us (though I prefer the Volvo ocean race). And anyone getting anywhere close to lifting a hull while drinking beer is an idiot unless they're on a hobiecat.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Heg

I understand that. There are risks in any sport. However, this is from the RQYS website-

“Wednesday Afternoon Go Sailing is a Squadron institution. Sign-on in the RQ Bar from midday and spend a leisurely afternoon on Waterloo and Moreton Bay’s.”

Seems to be a very different description from the high octane racing that some posters are describing here. That’s all I’m saying

I went once as crew and it was leisurely until about 3 minutes before start time then it was a race. Not for sheep stations but everyone was having a go.

I still think if your on the boat you have not just accepted the risk, you are there because of it and you want to take some chances.

[Bean Counter]

I have raced in that RQ WAGS, supposedly "casual racing", which it is for most, but not all. It is a staggered start, slow monos leave for an around island race, followed by faster monos then cruising cats then trimarans and racing multihulls. So the guys that start last have somewhere between 20 and 70 boats to pass (depending on who shows up). These guys love to win any race, and so like to push the envelope. I have won this race a couple of times in a lighter cat than we have now, and it all gets quite exciting at the finish line with a old 26 ft double ender heading .5 of a mile from the finish line with a racing trimaran reaching in from a a couple of miles back back to try and snatch victory. The more wind the more excitement, the double ender is still doing 6 knots and the Tri now doing 15kn. The guy is the double ender looks over his shoulder and belts back another beer, tweaks the poled out jib a bit and says "....dam and blast.. wish I had me one of them!". I have seen multiple collisions at the windward turning mark as mono's cut it very fine to a fixed steel beacon, we used to just sail wide of the mark in clear air, no point getting in a tacking dual with a mono or trying to call starboard, they often think they can squeeze in underestimating the speed of the cat..

Regarding learning from racing, what this taught me was that when we started at the back and had to pass 50 + monohulls of all descriptions and some heavier cruising cats, that the beat to windward was all important, resisting the temptation to try to point as high as the monos, bearing off for speed, keep the cat moving, not stalling in tacks, tacking downwind not running square (no spinnakers allowed), and so on, in that afternoon of racing you learned so much about the sail handling of your boat, even in 5 knot drifters with no engines, the concentrated learning input far more than cruising around, because it forced you to think about how it all comes together. But then passing the Lagoon 56 in our 39 footer was easy as he was having a party on board doof doof music and all..those were the days ....

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Factor

Not only is everyone ok, but boat is back up and sailing. As for sailing conservatively, they were racing and this is a fast boat, sailed hard by a good sailor- and e boat is a bit of a Heinz. here is how the owner describes it when interviewed at Hammo.

“This was once a Rogers 36”, said Drew Carruthers standing at the stern of his catamaran Rushour, which is sailing in the Multihull Racing division. “I turned it into a 40-foot Rogers and then I couldn’t sell it, so I turned it into a 50-footer. I cut it up with a chainsaw and I guess there’s no Rogers in it anymore!” he said with a wry smile.

The performance gain in stretching his boat is evidently paying dividends if day one of Race Week is anything to go by. “We hit a top speed of 28.5 knots. We started out 200m ahead of Wild Oats XI as we left Dent Passage and ended up still 200m ahead when we reached South Molle Island.”

when he says he cut it up with a chainsaw he isn't joking.

So lets just accept that race boats raced hard occasionally have a little oopsy - nothing to see here, it will be racing again next week.

Two questions to ponder, and I'm not saying there are right and wrong answers:

1. If you were the race organizers, would you let Rushour sail the Sydney-Hobart?

2. If the race organizers allowed you to be an entry, would you sail Rushour in the Sydney Hobart?

[Tornadosailing]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Two questions to ponder, and I'm not saying there are right and wrong answers:

1. If you were the race organizers, would you let Rushour sail the Sydney-Hobart?

2. If the race organizers allowed you to be an entry, would you sail Rushour in the Sydney Hobart?

I wouldn't sail my Hobie 33 in the Sydney-Hobart, nor would I expect the organizers to let me. But there is almost always a Hobie 33 sailing the Trans-pac, and quite successfully. Not sure how the boat's suitability for the race it was participating in vs it's suitability for the Sydney-Hobart is relevant.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Two questions to ponder, and I'm not saying there are right and wrong answers:

1. If you were the race organizers, would you let Rushour sail the Sydney-Hobart?

2. If the race organizers allowed you to be an entry, would you sail Rushour in the Sydney Hobart?

First off, Sydney-Hobart is for monohulls, so the entry would not be accepted without even considering the boat itself.

So I assume you mean would the modified yacht be suitable for an offshore race (though admittedly the Sydney-Hobart is a coastal race that happens to traverse some nasty areas of coast, as well as the all important Bass Straight) or for offshore cruising? It doesn't just have to be a race: New Zealand-registered cruising boats are not permitted to leave New Zealand without a Category 1 certificate https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/recre...g-overseas.asp. This requires an inspection of the yacht and the determination that the yacht and crew are suitable for offshore. Just because a boat has been modified does not mean it is not suitable.

In the case of the catamaran that started this thread, it must meet some level of safety certification or it wouldn't be allowed to race. We have no information of what the owner did after using the chainsaw to ensure that the new, significantly larger catamaran is suitably engineered and designed.

Any catamaran when racing on the edge can capsize, it just takes someone being a little slow on the traveller and sheet. The adrenaline is awesome - I still remember my two years crewing on XL2, a 40 foot solid bridge deck (but not cabin) racing catamaran from the 90s on the east coast of Australia.

But when you're cruising you deliberately don't come anywhere close to carrying that much sail. Gust response to squalls can be an issue given some of the recent capsizes, but that's been beat to death in other threads.

[donradcliffe]

Why do you say that the Sydney Hobart is a monohull race, and multis wouldn't even be considered? The Fastnet (biggest death toll ever) used to be for monohulls, and now they let multihulls race. The Transpac has let the multis in. The Bermuda race organizers are on the fence. Times are changing.

[BigBeakie]

The mods to Rushour were designed and executed by Nathan Stanton and his build crew, so it was properly built.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Why do you say that the Sydney Hobart is a monohull race, and multis wouldn't even be considered? The Fastnet (biggest death toll ever) used to be for monohulls, and now they let multihulls race. The Transpac has let the multis in. The Bermuda race organizers are on the fence. Times are changing.

It’s not me saying it, it’s the CYCA, which owns the Sydney-Hobart race. If they ever get declining numbers then maybe they’ll consider allowing multis to race, but for now they sell out all spaces way early. And I don’t think the owners of the 100 footers would like to be beat by a 40 or 60 foot cat or tri. Besides, wouldn’t you rather race your multi north from Sydney?