A reminder to all of us to sail conservatively

[StuM]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Why do you say that the Sydney Hobart is a monohull race, and multis wouldn't even be considered? The Fastnet (biggest death toll ever) used to be for monohulls, and now they let multihulls race. The Transpac has let the multis in. The Bermuda race organizers are on the fence. Times are changing.

It would require a complete regime change in the CYCA executive before they changed their Rule 8.1

“A boat shall be of monohull construction and comply with SR part 1 for the applicable Race Category”

[tp12]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Two questions to ponder, and I'm not saying there are right and wrong answers:

1. If you were the race organizers, would you let Rushour sail the Sydney-Hobart?

2. If the race organizers allowed you to be an entry, would you sail Rushour in the Sydney Hobart?

Yes and yes.

In my opinion, this is a philosophical discussion about restricting the activities of others because they're dangerous. I'm generally against stopping adults from doing things that are dangerous on the pretext that it's for 'their benefit'. In the majority of cases it's actually about the person who wants to stop it and their fears.

I played sport all my life and you accept the risk of injury. I raced motorbikes and put myself in hospital a few times, it's part of the deal. I did my racing in the UK and was also planning on doing the Manx GP; the club racing version of the Isle of Man TT. The racing on the Island averages 2.x deaths per year over it's 100+ year history; Would you cancel the Isle of Man TT? It's debated heavily over there every year so I'm used to hearing both sides of that argument but I would never take the decision away from the riders by stopping it.

I race a mono most weekends and I accept that there's risk. In the last three years racing in and out of sydney harbour I've seen a mast come down, a prodder go through another boat's cockpit and plenty of spinnakers pull boats over. On our boat we sail conservatively sometimes and sometimes we push it. If the crew is on form we might carry a spinnaker a bit too long and be ambitious about getting it down and risk a broach and chucking the crew off etc but we still do it. And sometimes we make mistakes.

Racing is dangerous. Anyone who thinks racing a mono is safe is not assessing the risks correctly. Is racing a multi more dangerous? Maybe. Enough to say don't race, it's too dangerous? Not for me. Others are free to choose not to do it.

Using a racing 'crash' to remind cruisers to sail conservatively speaks volumes regarding the intent. If you're sailing conservatively you're not racing. There are no parallels to be drawn here.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by tp12

Using a racing 'crash' to remind cruisers to sail conservatively speaks volumes regarding the intent. If you're sailing conservatively you're not racing. There are no parallels to be drawn here.

For example: Lewis Hamilton crashed this season, too. Everyone drive conservatively when dropping off the billy lids, ok!

[tp12]

Originally Posted by fxykty

It’s not me saying it, it’s the CYCA, which owns the Sydney-Hobart race. If they ever get declining numbers then maybe they’ll consider allowing multis to race, but for now they sell out all spaces way early. And I don’t think the owners of the 100 footers would like to be beat by a 40 or 60 foot cat or tri. Besides, wouldn’t you rather race your multi north from Sydney?

From what I've seen there's a very traditional culture at the CYCA. I think it will be a cold day in hell before they allow multis in the Sydney to Hobart.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by tp12

Using a racing 'crash' to remind cruisers to sail conservatively speaks volumes regarding the intent.

So does a perusal of the numerous other threads started by the same poster showing pictures of cats in distress.

[catsketcher]

Regardless of whether Seaslug posted this for nefarious reasons it brings up an interesting point. This discussion has little nuance. There are two camps that find it hard to see the limitations of our boats.

Sure you can get hurt on monos but monos get pushed all the time and few sink. They lie flat and they get back up again. You make a mistake and the boat forgives you with a short sharp shock and then you reduce sail and get on with the race again. This forgiveness means that you can race with less chance of a really bad event. In dinghies you can capsize and get up and maybe still win a race. You can crash and still finish.

That is the difference here. You can "crash" a mono and keep racing. Crash a multi and it spoils your day and your wallet. I like racing all boats but I do feel that multi lovers need to understand the limitations of the boats we like. Events like this happen because of the very lack of vices that cats have. This makes them great cruisers when not pushed hard but for some, maybe the majority of sailors, less useful racing boats.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Why do you say that the Sydney Hobart is a monohull race, and multis wouldn't even be considered? The Fastnet (biggest death toll ever) used to be for monohulls, and now they let multihulls race. The Transpac has let the multis in. The Bermuda race organizers are on the fence. Times are changing.

Everybody is letting multihulls in on the big classic races, Middle Sea race and Round the Island too even if we see very few cruiser racer entries. Mostly big racing trimarans.

I don't know why on Sydney Hobart they don't allow them. They just seem to be too conservative and out of time. But they allow boats that use the engine for powering winches and that is against sail rules everywhere except there. Kind of odd

[Polux]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

....

Sure you can get hurt on monos but monos get pushed all the time and few sink. They lie flat and they get back up again. You make a mistake and the boat forgives you with a short sharp shock and then you reduce sail and get on with the race again. This forgiveness means that you can race with less chance of a really bad event. ....

That is the difference here. You can "crash" a mono and keep racing. Crash a multi and it spoils your day and your wallet. I like racing all boats but I do feel that multi lovers need to understand the limitations of the boats we like. Events like this happen because of the very lack of vices that cats have. This makes them great cruisers when not pushed hard but for some, maybe the majority of sailors, less useful racing boats.

I mostly agree but while racing catamarans have a full crew at the sails and are able to let go the sails in gusts preventing them to capsize. Not so on a cruising cat where many times the boat is on autopilot...and abnormal gusts can still happen, even more with the weather instability that is growing.

Not saying that it is a big risk, abnormal conditions are by definition rare, but we have cruising cats capsizing on those conditions and big ones too.

Regarding racing and a short crew the French are the masters and after several attempts they ended up having as their smaller racing offshore multihull class a 50ft trimaran and even so it is a very tricky class (I love it) with boats very difficult to sail in bad conditions and that experience a relatively high tax of breakage and capsizes.

With good weather they are faster than the 60ft Imoca monohulls but with bad weather they are much slower, they have to be, not to break the boats and to prevent capsizes.

The smaller French offshore monohull class are the 22ft mini racers. This show in terms of safety, in what regards racing boats, the diferences in what regards monohulls and multihulls and has to do with what you have said above.

[donradcliffe]

The french 50 ft tri Drekan Groupe had a little oopsie last night in the middle of the North Atlantic. All are safe and sound, but its more ammo for the conservative group in the CYCA.

https://www.transatjacquesvabre.org/...groupe-capsize

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

The skills I picked up auto racing have saved my life on the public roads.

Virtually everybody else in the world gets along just fine without those special racing skills that for some reason you need to "save your life."

Wonder why that is?

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by billknny

Virtually everybody else in the world gets along just fine without those special racing skills that for some reason you need to "save your life."



Wonder why that is?

Everybody except the 1,300,000 people killed each year in car accidents lol.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

That is the difference here. You can "crash" a mono and keep racing. .

Like this

[Factor]

This thread is all a bit silly, Rushhour was built(well rebuilt) for one purpose - to win races. That is the owners choice. Its his money. The incident was minor in the great scheme of life, sure it will cost him money, rig check, probably some engine checks etc, again - his money. Within hours of the event the boat was parked back at its berth, all crew safe and sound. It will race again. Suggesting to this owner who has far more racing both inshore and blue water experience that the OP, that he should "sail Conservatively" is both disrespectful and ignorant.

As for monos being safer. I haven't heard of a racing cat having loss of life in Australia for a bloody long time, certainly heard of a few racing monos with loss of life situations. But I welcome correction.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What you do on your own boat is up to you.

Apparently not.

But then again you have a history of nonconformance

You sail when you should, according to the experts, motor,
You live aboard with all your worldly possessions on a light cat when clearly you should have a condo cat
You dont flip over every five minutes.

Shame Shame Shame

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't know why on Sydney Hobart they don't allow them.

Could it be because of repeated events like the one discussed here.

What about this one from a Wednrsday ??? weeks ago.



Was this a built to spec racer?

One cruiser racer (Rush hour) one cruiser (oram) Both bigger boats and both over on a wednesday night social race. It appears that the style of boat has little to do with these outcomes. Its how the boat is sailed.

Hence the reminder in the OP.

Lets all stay safe.