Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

[flightlead404]

I'm getting new sails for my Hunter 38.

Mack is touting their mitered sail cut.

I don't see many sails cut this way.

Gimmick, market differentiator, or real value?

[DougR]

Ask yourself why almost every sailmaker in the US quit making miter cut sails decades ago......
Ask yourself why you don’t see miter cut sails on the boats winning races around the country.....or on any race boats at all
Ask yourself if sailcloth technology and sail design technology has improved in the last 50 years....

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by DougR

Ask yourself why almost every sailmaker in the US quit making miter cut sails decades ago......
Ask yourself why you don’t see miter cut sails on the boats winning races around the country.....or on any race boats at all
Ask yourself if sailcloth technology and sail design technology has improved in the last 50 years....

I did ask myself.

I answered that I don't know squat.

So I decided to ask if anyone else might have better information than I do.

So far, apparently not.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I did ask myself.

I answered that I don't know squat.

So I decided to ask if anyone else might have better information than I do.

So far, apparently not.

Best response I’ve seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh!

Seriously - I don’t know either… but maybe I’ve helped by giving this thread a bump.

Good day!

[cal40john]

Dacron stretches more on the diagonal to the weave (the bias). A miter cut sail puts the threads inline with the load, reducing stretch. Miter cut sails waste more cloth.

Modern sail cloth is more stable, but I believe should still stretch more on the bias. Whether it is significant or not I don't know.

https://www.schoonerman.com/sail-tec...s-stretch.html

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Best response I’ve seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh!

Seriously - I don’t know either… but maybe I’ve helped by giving this thread a bump.

Good day!

lol

I understand the concept of warp and weft, and that fill yarns have different stretch characteristics than whatever the other way is called.

I also *guess* that dacron has different characteristics than older materials, and my *gut* tells me that construction techniques for one fabric don't necessarily apply to other fabrics....

but its all guess work on my part and would like to actually understand technical details of why or why not from those that know more than me.

[tamicatana]

Ask the sailmaker, who should be far more expert than an Internet forum. If you don't trust the sailmaker, find one whom you do trust. That's what you pay for; their expertise and advice.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by tamicatana

Ask the sailmaker, who should be far more expert than an Internet forum. If you don't trust the sailmaker, find one whom you do trust. That's what you pay for; their expertise and advice.

I don’t think it’s exactly a question of a lack of trust or perceived lack of expertise. But just as when I go to a surgeon for a procedure, though I have great respect for his knowledge and expertise, before he starts cutting I always feel better if I get a second opinion and I also like to understand as much as I can about it. So I ask him questions and then I google all the info I can and then once I think I’m starting to understand the issue and rationale for the procedure, I like to bounce it off another doctor. That doesn’t mean I don’t trust the first doctor or that I think everything I google about it is true, but it’s a process that makes me confident I’m doing the right thing. I think the OP has a similar mindset and asking us is part of his process of gaining more perspective, similar to my googling info before bouncing it off another expert and then finalizing my plans with the surgeon who’s going to be cutting on me. Since the need to replace sails from time to time is something we all share, I’m looking forward to watching this thread to hopefully increase my own knowledge which might come in handy the next time I need to have a sail built.

[fourlyons]

Yes, ask your sailmaker.

However, if I remember correctly (probably not), my understanding is that mitercut headsails went out of fashion exactly because they are more resistant to stretch when building in dacron. But, that means you can't use stretch to change the sail's shape. So they're more stable but less adjustable. I think Brian Hancock talks about this in his book, sorry, I forget the name of the book.

[jtsailjt]

https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone who’s in a position to know.

[fourlyons]

I would add, we do still build mitercut sails; look at any code zero. They're all just triradial now, that is a form of mitercut. Same principal, no?

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone who’s in a position to know.

Agreed.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone who’s in a position to know.

An article on mitered sails by the sailmaker pushing the OP to buy a mitered sail.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone who’s in a position to know.

Well sure.

But Mack is a business. They are in the business, in part, to sell sails. Being competitive means having some sort of market differentiators.

Some differentiators could be price, delivery time and so on. Some could be a "better" product, some could be complete nonensnse

It makes absolutely zero sense to ask the company who is using some feature as a market differentiator, if their market differentiator makes sense. All they are going to do is answer "yes" more or less.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for some people.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

I would add, we do still build mitercut sails; look at any code zero. They're all just triradial now, that is a form of mitercut. Same principal, no?

At its foundation, I guess its the same principal of aligning most and least stretch where it works the best for that particular sail.

I'm specifically talking about a roller furling 110% genoa on a 38' monohull for easy cruising.