Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-07-2022, 10:24   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,134
Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

I'm getting new sails for my Hunter 38.

Mack is touting their mitered sail cut.

I don't see many sails cut this way.

Gimmick, market differentiator, or real value?
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:07   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,439
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Ask yourself why almost every sailmaker in the US quit making miter cut sails decades ago......
Ask yourself why you don’t see miter cut sails on the boats winning races around the country.....or on any race boats at all
Ask yourself if sailcloth technology and sail design technology has improved in the last 50 years....
DougR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:18   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,134
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR View Post
Ask yourself why almost every sailmaker in the US quit making miter cut sails decades ago......
Ask yourself why you donít see miter cut sails on the boats winning races around the country.....or on any race boats at all
Ask yourself if sailcloth technology and sail design technology has improved in the last 50 years....
I did ask myself.

I answered that I don't know squat.

So I decided to ask if anyone else might have better information than I do.

So far, apparently not.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:23   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 231
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlead404 View Post
I did ask myself.

I answered that I don't know squat.

So I decided to ask if anyone else might have better information than I do.

So far, apparently not.
Best response Iíve seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh!

Seriously - I donít know eitherÖ but maybe Iíve helped by giving this thread a bump.

Good day!
Phyrcooler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:24   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,903
Images: 7
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Dacron stretches more on the diagonal to the weave (the bias). A miter cut sail puts the threads inline with the load, reducing stretch. Miter cut sails waste more cloth.

Modern sail cloth is more stable, but I believe should still stretch more on the bias. Whether it is significant or not I don't know.

https://www.schoonerman.com/sail-tec...s-stretch.html
cal40john is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:26   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,134
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyrcooler View Post
Best response Iíve seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh!

Seriously - I donít know eitherÖ but maybe Iíve helped by giving this thread a bump.

Good day!
lol

I understand the concept of warp and weft, and that fill yarns have different stretch characteristics than whatever the other way is called.

I also *guess* that dacron has different characteristics than older materials, and my *gut* tells me that construction techniques for one fabric don't necessarily apply to other fabrics....

but its all guess work on my part and would like to actually understand technical details of why or why not from those that know more than me.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:38   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yuma Island
Posts: 1,523
Images: 15
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Ask the sailmaker, who should be far more expert than an Internet forum. If you don't trust the sailmaker, find one whom you do trust. That's what you pay for; their expertise and advice.
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 11:58   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Penobscot Bay, Maine
Boat: Tayana 47
Posts: 2,066
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Ask the sailmaker, who should be far more expert than an Internet forum. If you don't trust the sailmaker, find one whom you do trust. That's what you pay for; their expertise and advice.


I donít think itís exactly a question of a lack of trust or perceived lack of expertise. But just as when I go to a surgeon for a procedure, though I have great respect for his knowledge and expertise, before he starts cutting I always feel better if I get a second opinion and I also like to understand as much as I can about it. So I ask him questions and then I google all the info I can and then once I think Iím starting to understand the issue and rationale for the procedure, I like to bounce it off another doctor. That doesnít mean I donít trust the first doctor or that I think everything I google about it is true, but itís a process that makes me confident Iím doing the right thing. I think the OP has a similar mindset and asking us is part of his process of gaining more perspective, similar to my googling info before bouncing it off another expert and then finalizing my plans with the surgeon whoís going to be cutting on me. Since the need to replace sails from time to time is something we all share, Iím looking forward to watching this thread to hopefully increase my own knowledge which might come in handy the next time I need to have a sail built.
jtsailjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:01   #9
Registered User
 
fourlyons's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Boat: 39' Custom built junk rigged cat ketch
Posts: 381
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Yes, ask your sailmaker.

However, if I remember correctly (probably not), my understanding is that mitercut headsails went out of fashion exactly because they are more resistant to stretch when building in dacron. But, that means you can't use stretch to change the sail's shape. So they're more stable but less adjustable. I think Brian Hancock talks about this in his book, sorry, I forget the name of the book.
fourlyons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:04   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Penobscot Bay, Maine
Boat: Tayana 47
Posts: 2,066
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone whoís in a position to know.
jtsailjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:05   #11
Registered User
 
fourlyons's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Boat: 39' Custom built junk rigged cat ketch
Posts: 381
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

I would add, we do still build mitercut sails; look at any code zero. They're all just triradial now, that is a form of mitercut. Same principal, no?
fourlyons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:08   #12
Registered User
 
fourlyons's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Boat: 39' Custom built junk rigged cat ketch
Posts: 381
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone whoís in a position to know.
Agreed.
fourlyons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:10   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40 (sold). Still have a Hobie 20
Posts: 2,903
Images: 7
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone whoís in a position to know.
An article on mitered sails by the sailmaker pushing the OP to buy a mitered sail.
cal40john is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:24   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,134
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
https://macksails.com/sails/

This seems like a pretty good explanation by someone whoís in a position to know.
Well sure.

But Mack is a business. They are in the business, in part, to sell sails. Being competitive means having some sort of market differentiators.

Some differentiators could be price, delivery time and so on. Some could be a "better" product, some could be complete nonensnse

It makes absolutely zero sense to ask the company who is using some feature as a market differentiator, if their market differentiator makes sense. All they are going to do is answer "yes" more or less.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for some people.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2022, 12:27   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,134
Re: Mitered Sails - Gimmick or value?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourlyons View Post
I would add, we do still build mitercut sails; look at any code zero. They're all just triradial now, that is a form of mitercut. Same principal, no?
At its foundation, I guess its the same principal of aligning most and least stretch where it works the best for that particular sail.

I'm specifically talking about a roller furling 110% genoa on a 38' monohull for easy cruising.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sail, sails

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Market Value vs selling value maijipo General Sailing Forum 76 23-11-2021 09:01
Insurance policies: agreed value or actual cash value? mnackerman General Sailing Forum 17 16-06-2016 07:51
Boat Insurance: Agreed Value vs Actual Cash Value Policies Robertson Dollars & Cents 19 04-02-2013 15:13
Super Wave Oven - Gimmick ? Or Has Anyone Used One ? Hillbillylad Provisioning: Food & Drink 9 28-02-2012 05:49

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.