Island Packet Model Comparison

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by mcerdos

a64pilot,
Not sure why you selected my post in particular to pick apart but it looks like you are helping me make my points:

• The holding tanks are known to leak
• Engine replacement is unknown to you - I have seen it first hand.
• "Prop walk is your friend". Really? Try backing down a narrow cannel with prop walk, especially if the wind is pushing the vessel the same direction as prop walk. Let's keep in mind the OP is a novice. My point stands about a bow thruster with a full keel.
• You carry a step ladder

I "picked" on yours to try to show that there are apparently differences between models and years, grouping all IP's or any other brand together and making blanket statements may not hold for all model and years.
I don't back down narrow channels with wind pushing my bow, I know what the result would be, I too am a novice, very much a novice. Until I bought mine, I had zero sailing experience, and I have a lot to learn. Only point of that is a person with decent mechanical skills and training, I believe can safely operate an IP 38, just don't ever forget your a novice and don't be too proud to admit that and ask for help.
I'm not at all trying to pick on you, sorry if it came across that way, most of your point have merit, just some of them for an 87 year model IP38, don't.

[mcerdos]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I "picked" on yours to try to show that there are apparently differences between models and years, grouping all IP's or any other brand together and making blanket statements may not hold for all model and years.
I don't back down narrow channels with wind pushing my bow, I know what the result would be, I too am a novice, very much a novice. Until I bought mine, I had zero sailing experience, and I have a lot to learn. Only point of that is a person with decent mechanical skills and training, I believe can safely operate an IP 38, just don't ever forget your a novice and don't be too proud to admit that and ask for help.
I'm not at all trying to pick on you, sorry if it came across that way, most of your point have merit, just some of them for an 87 year model IP38, don't.

Yes. Very good point. There are a lot of differences between models. I have always been impressed with IP. For the most part, they make a good solid boat. We seriously considered the 485 for our cruising boat before settling on Amel.

Funny story: When we first purchased our Amel, it was located in Ft. Lauderdale. It was behind a home on a cannel off the New River. The very first time we operated the vessel we had to back down a cannel with VERY expensive boats on either side. At one point the we had less than 2 feet on both sides as we reversed. Once in the New River, we had five bridges to hail for openings and currents to contend with. As we left Ft Lauderdale and headed out to sea, my wife said, "I don't ever want to come back here. It's too stressful". I was thankful and impressed that the Amel backed perfectly. No damage with our nervous exit. A good day!

[ErBrown]

Thanks for the feedback folks, please keep it coming.

I too would like a sugar scoop stern, but am not positive the difference in price will justify it for us. The late 80s / early 90s IP38 seems like a lot of boat for the money. It looks like we can fairly easily get one on the low 100k range. If we crawl through a 380 or 370 that is jut amazing and warrants the 40-50k (or more) price jump then we could probably make them work too. I think we'd prefer to keep the price below $150k, lower is obviously better and this seems easy to do with a 38. The 40 seems like a nice option since asking tends to be in the 180k range and I would assume we could negotiate down closer to the $150k range. The 40 doesn't have the sugar scoop but the teak swim platform seems handy as well. There are 380s out there in the same range, though the story behind the low priced one in Florida makes me a bit nervous, but we'll take a look and go from their.

The 380/370 seem to have a lot of nice features but they're really going to have to wow us to justify the price jump. But then, that's the point for looking at so many boats back to back...and subjecting ourselves to 4 days of driving.

Is there any realistic way to check tank condition (holding, water, diesel) prior to a survey? To me these seem like items that if they fail survey, should be addressed in the final sale price. Does that seem realistic?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by ErBrown

The boats we’ve narrowed it down to are the IP 370, 38, 380, and 40.

Which get’s me to my question. Despite the fact that our primary focus is comfort, I’m curious what kind of performance differences you would expect between these 4 boats (stat’s below).

I've sailed all those boats. A new 370 was on my short list before I chose Auspicious.

I like IPs. I think they are solid and comfortable boats. The newer "three-digit" boats are a little more comfortable. Sailing performance of the older "two-digit" boats is significantly better. Without real insight into your priorities I would go for the older two-digit model boats and make sure you have a backstay adjuster.

[ErBrown]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

ErBrown,
I'll be in Panama City this weekend if your close and have time.

Thanks a64, we may take you up on this. As it stands right now we'll be looking at a few boats in Mobile on Fri and possibly a boat in Pensacola as we role through on I10. Doesn't look like Panama City would be a big detour, I just have no idea what our timing will be at this point. We'll passing through on 10 during our return late Sat or sometime Sunday.

I'll PM you when I have a clew on the timing. I appreciate the offer and would love to pick your brain a bit in person or via email/phone at some point. The fact that you've recently been through the same process, possibly even looking at some of the same boats, would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
EB

[Cheechako]

The in mast furling on the 370 will be a big hit performance wise, and depending on model of mast/furling could be very frustrating at times, if not dangerous. I think the IP in general is a good choice, I'm not too fond of the look of many of them, but I think they are a good choice construction and accommodation wise.

Regarding tanks: treat any empty tank suspect. Understand if the tanks can be removed readily, Consider any metal tank under the floor over 10 years old as likely to fail soon.

[mcerdos]

Originally Posted by ErBrown

Is there any realistic way to check tank condition (holding, water, diesel) prior to a survey? To me these seem like items that if they fail survey, should be addressed in the final sale price. Does that seem realistic?

If the diesel tank is leaking, you will immediately smell it. I would like to say the same is true with the holding tank. But if it is empty and clean, it will not smell. Both owners near me with holding tank issues purchased the vessels without knowing of the problem. It wasn't until they started to use the holding tank that they realized it was leaking. This is not something a surveyor would tend to catch. You can look for evidence of leaks around the tank but if the owner is hiding the leak, they will most likely clean the area around the tank. One tank was leaking at the top so it only became apparent there was a problem when the tank was full.

Knowing that some of these vessels have an issue, you now know to tread carefully when shopping. One option would be to flush food dye into the head and continue until the tank is full. Let the vessel sit overnight and then inspect it the next day for traces of food dye in the bilges or around the tank.

[Stu Jackson]

Happy Hunting.

This might help:

Boat Inspection Trip Tips - SailboatOwners.com

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Regarding tanks: Consider any metal tank under the floor over 10 years old as likely to fail soon.

i was thinking 20 but will not argue. the thing is you cannot really tell by inspection whether the tank is ready to fail. usually the pinhole is so small it can only be seen after the leak starts. and both the water and fuel tanks are under the fiberglass sole of the island packets which means major surgery and big bucks unless you do it yourself. if the aluminum water tank has lots of inside corrosion visible thru the inspection port then it is suspect. it is a roll of the dice for any boat built before 1995. i also agree that the IP 38 or 40 needs a bow thruster.

[a64pilot]

The fuel and water tanks are difficult to asses. You can see the outside of them rather well, but not the interior. The water tank is the one that I assume is sure to fail eventually as you just can't not put chlorinated water in it and the chlorine will eventually corrode it away, or at lest that's my opinion. I would say the water tank is perfect all the way up until the day it fails, then of course it's gone. I'm sure mine is 27 yrs old, and therefore on borrowed time, just a fact of life, it's not if it will fail, but when.
Black water tank was replaced in 2002 on mine, or at least that is the date on it anyway. I do not put salt water in it, I fresh water flush only, but I doubt the PO did, but I don't worry about it as on mine replacement is easy.

Mcerdos,
You gotta remember we are talking about sub 100K boats here, Your Super Maramu isn't in that catagory

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by gonesail

i was thinking 20 but will not argue. the thing is you cannot really tell by inspection whether the tank is ready to fail. usually the pinhole is so small it can only be seen after the leak starts. and both the water and fuel tanks are under the fiberglass sole of the island packets which means major surgery and big bucks unless you do it yourself. if the aluminum water tank has lots of inside corrosion visible thru the inspection port then it is suspect. it is a roll of the dice for any boat built before 1995. i also agree that the IP 38 or 40 needs a bow thruster.

Yeah, tanks are just a turkey shoot for sure. I would look at the exterior very closely especially at the bottom half. Any kind of surface rust or bubbling or other corrosion and I would assume it about to fail on the bottom. Maybe not, but I would assume that.
History:
A)I bought a boat several years ago with two tanks under the floor boards. They were a few inches above the lowest part of the hull. Both had diesel in them and there were no leaks. The boat had been sitting for about 3 years and had been run every month.
Within two weeks of my using the boat, one tank was leaking into the bilge. Within 6 months the other was leaking. I guess the vibration from using the boat was the final straw!
B) Another boat was a 1985 with three tanks, one under the floor. At survey in 1992, the center tank was empty. There was no trace of diesel or smell in the boat. The first time I used the boat I decided to go ahead and fill that tank, fortunately a little light went off in my head and I decided to look in the bilge while the fuel was going into that tank. The bilge was filling with diesel! So that SS tank failed in 7 years.. holes were where it sat on glass coated wood beams to support the tank. I put a titanium tank in .
C) I've had glass covered Black Iron tanks , that were still good at 15 years+. Also had other tanks not in the bilge that were pretty old. So hard to say....

[neilsty]

I don't know if anyone else suggested this, but try chartering one or two different IPs. Island yachts in the USVI have several models for charter. We did this years ago when we were looking for a boat and considering IPs

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Regarding tanks: treat any empty tank suspect. Understand if the tanks can be removed readily, Consider any metal tank under the floor over 10 years old as likely to fail soon.

Well our mild steel fuel tanks (Aquamaid) are over 40 years old and still no leaks. I have given up worrying about them. I still don't really know how I would remove them. It is going to be a major project, someday.
Water tanks are stainless and still fine also.

[ErBrown]

Yeah the aluminum tanks worry me as do the glassed in chain plates (still seems stupid to me). But if those are my biggest concerns they both seem manageable, seems like there are enough of these boats around that I can benefit from others experience with these eventual upgrades.

As for maneuverability, I'm sure the learning curve will be steep, but I'll manage. Unfortunately most of the boats we'll be looking at do not currently have bow thrusters.

[angelfish2]

ErBrown, welcome to the cul...umm...club. We have a 32 and love her! She's beautiful, peppy, and comfortable. At 19-20 knots, we always have all 3 sails up and are just starting to have fun. We don't reef 'til around 29-30 knots. Perhaps, that's why we move faster than the racers where we sail. They are reefed down pretty tight at those wind speeds.

Yes, the aluminum holding tank is something to replace. It was easy on our boat because it is located right beneath the starboard settee. We replaced it with a plastic one and along with all new hoses, painted the locker.

I will say that if I ever made a change I would go with a 40. They are perfect in my book. I don't like the 3 digit series because I love the classic look with lots of shear and I don't like the "sugar scoops"....too easy to board and makes me nervous.

Good luck on your search. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions. However, Home Port and IPOYA are great places to poke around in.