Guns on board. Yes/no

[mako]

Pelagic and Group9 bring up good points about receiving specialized training, which I can attest to also. I received such before I mobilized to Syria (twice) and found it hugely helpful in multiple occasions. It does a lot for your self confidence and ability to think clearly during stress situations.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Group9

Or if he is highly trained and experienced, and going up against attackers who are neither. But, most people aren't any more willing to get training in that than they are in diesel mechanics.

But, if you happen to have a background where you are already somewhat highly trained and experienced in firearms and combat, that is a world of difference from someone who buys one and puts it on his boat and plans on firing it for the first time when he defends himself.

I've had more training than most of the people I see ranting about guns.

I even taught concealed-carry classes for a bit, so I think I have a better understanding of the legalities, at least within the U.S., than most. (Got my training on the legalities from the law school professor who was the author of the shall-issue bill in my state.)

And I'm a long way from confident in my ability to fight off a skiff full of armed attackers while at sea. OTOH, I'm very confident in my lack of ability to fight them off if I were unarmed.

The open question is whether I'd be able to avoid them.

[a64pilot]

What is very good training that I got in the Military as what they called a high risk of capture individual had nothing to do with firearms.
Had to do with being security conscious, as in how not to act, where to not go, how not to establish routines, and how not to dress and act, how not to stick out etc.
One thing that was impressed into us over and over in this training was that if you had to exercise your superior skill in defense, you failed. The one who passed was the one who avoided the confrontation.
Save up and pay for that RO RO or whatever a boat carrying ship is called, or plan an alternate route

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Jdege

...And I'm a long way from confident in my ability to fight off a skiff full of armed attackers while at sea. OTOH, I'm very confident in my lack of ability to fight them off if I were unarmed.

As I said before, this is a VERY personal decision if fate were to put you and your family under lethal attack in a remote scenario.

There is also a philosophical component on how you prefer to die.

There is no right decision whether to automatically surrender or fight to the death without assessment

Testing the threat level of the agressors should be part of your initial defense strategy thru some form of early challenge.
This is where security training really helps you to work thru the various scenarios with experts.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

What is very good training that I got in the Military as what they called a high risk of capture individual had nothing to do with firearms.
Had to do with being security conscious, as in how not to act, where to not go, how not to establish routines, and how not to dress and act, how not to stick out etc.
One thing that was impressed into us over and over in this training was that if you had to exercise your superior skill in defense, you failed. The one who passed was the one who avoided the confrontation.
Save up and pay for that RO RO or whatever a boat carrying ship is called, or plan an alternate route

And, that's the really unfair part of it. The people whose lives and training and experience make them the most likely to successfully defend themselves in a fight, are also the same ones likely to recognize trouble at a safe enough distance to avoid having to.

[Lepke]

I ran patrol boats in Vietnam over several years and got to see the weapons usually seen in pirate hands from the other end. AKs, 12.7 heavy and RPGs at least a few times a month and some times extended heavy fire.
I'd like to make 3 points. A person shooting at closing pirates is going to face several rifles firing, each capable of 10 rounds a second. It's a heaver bullet than the US M-16/M-4 and will go completely thru a sailboat unless it hits the engine. If they should have the 12.7 Russian heavy (equivalent to US .50 M-2) that will go thru the engine, too. I know. In the chance they have RPGs, any hit on an average sailboat would severally wound everyone and maybe kill everyone. The fragments will go thru fiberglass like butter. Insurgents are not known for marksmanship, but most will have more shooting experience than the average yacht owner.
The next point is, combat mentality, In a team or fighting group, everybody reacts to being fired on aggressively. Every sense goes away except your focus on aiming and shooting to stop yourself and your buddies from being hurt. And the shooting probably won't stop until the opposition is dead. That's probably why sometimes a group of cops shoots a perp 20 times. Each is almost unaware of the others firing. Each is protecting himself and his buddies. So when you fire at pirates, they will reply with everything they have. Pirates are not worried about being caught for murdering some foreigner. They've been shot at before. Experience counts.
My last point has already suggested, it's hard to hit anything from a moving boat, especially another moving boat. I shot from moving boats with rifles, M-60 and M-2 machine guns and it's not easy and I've done thousands of rounds. It takes experience to aim and allow the roll and pitch of a boat. I don't think a person or family can defend, day or night and expect a better outcome than surrender and robbery. If you shoot I think you'd be dead. You would be if I was the pirate.
As a vet, I think the only possible defense would require detecting pirates at long range and having a military grade sniper rifle, maybe night vision scope, and the skill to use it. Once you shoot, there's no surrender.
Pic is RPG hit on thicker fiberglass than yachts have.

[a64pilot]

I assumed someone from the brown water navy would speak up with the voice of experience.
I thank you you for what you have done, others try to follow in your footsteps.

[GrowleyMonster]

I will point out that attacks by Somali pirates after dark are very rare. Money you might want to spend on night vision gear would probably be better spent elsewhere.

[softdown]

Safe to say that we should not rely on a gun to protect ourselves from pirates. There are a lot of other ways to successfully fend off pirates. We just need to think of some good ones...then swear we don't have the means to defend ourselves when asked.

Chemical reactions come to mind. The fuel pump and hose has possibilities.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Lepke

I ran patrol boats in Vietnam over several years and got to see the weapons usually seen in pirate hands from the other end. AKs, 12.7 heavy and RPGs at least a few times a month and some times extended heavy fire.
I'd like to make 3 points. A person shooting at closing pirates is going to face several rifles firing, each capable of 10 rounds a second. It's a heaver bullet than the US M-16/M-4 and will go completely thru a sailboat unless it hits the engine. If they should have the 12.7 Russian heavy (equivalent to US .50 M-2) that will go thru the engine, too. I know. In the chance they have RPGs, any hit on an average sailboat would severally wound everyone and maybe kill everyone. The fragments will go thru fiberglass like butter. Insurgents are not known for marksmanship, but most will have more shooting experience than the average yacht owner.
The next point is, combat mentality, In a team or fighting group, everybody reacts to being fired on aggressively. Every sense goes away except your focus on aiming and shooting to stop yourself and your buddies from being hurt. And the shooting probably won't stop until the opposition is dead. That's probably why sometimes a group of cops shoots a perp 20 times. Each is almost unaware of the others firing. Each is protecting himself and his buddies. So when you fire at pirates, they will reply with everything they have. Pirates are not worried about being caught for murdering some foreigner. They've been shot at before. Experience counts.
My last point has already suggested, it's hard to hit anything from a moving boat, especially another moving boat. I shot from moving boats with rifles, M-60 and M-2 machine guns and it's not easy and I've done thousands of rounds. It takes experience to aim and allow the roll and pitch of a boat. I don't think a person or family can defend, day or night and expect a better outcome than surrender and robbery. If you shoot I think you'd be dead. You would be if I was the pirate.
As a vet, I think the only possible defense would require detecting pirates at long range and having a military grade sniper rifle, maybe night vision scope, and the skill to use it. Once you shoot, there's no surrender.
Pic is RPG hit on thicker fiberglass than yachts have.

Both victim and attacker shooting at moving targets from a moving boat. Still sounds better than having your head slowly cut off.

I remember all of the posts after the recently decapitated Canadian was kidnapped in the Phillipines, talking about how lucky he was he didn't try and fight back. Maybe, there just isn't a risk free option when you find yourself in that situation.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by softdown

Safe to say that we should not rely on a gun to protect ourselves from pirates. There are a lot of other ways to successfully fend off pirates. We just need to think of some good ones...then swear we don't have the means to defend ourselves when asked.

Chemical reactions come to mind. The fuel pump and hose has possibilities.

There is always begging, pleading, and crying, too!

[softdown]

Originally Posted by Group9

There is always begging, pleading, and crying, too!

More faith in a gas mask and a chemical reaction.

[Fence Man]

Guns, PFDs, seatbelts, life rafts, etc....... If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again.

[Group9]

The basics!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXyg8dnhtPk

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by softdown

Safe to say that we should not rely on a gun to protect ourselves from pirates. There are a lot of other ways to successfully fend off pirates. We just need to think of some good ones...then swear we don't have the means to defend ourselves when asked.

Chemical reactions come to mind. The fuel pump and hose has possibilities.

If you have bad guys with guns close enough for you to spray them with fuel from a hose you are already screwed. Way sooner than you can spray them with fuel they will spray you with bullets and at that range the odds of hitting the target (you) with a gun increase dramatically.

Same thing with any "chemical reaction". The only way it will be effective defense will be with some kind of long range delivery system which is not available to civilians.