First keel sailboat for single hand learning?

[Kite]

I was planning to learn the ropes with something like a Sunfish. After the feedback I had had here, I decided to upgrade the plans. I want to start with a small keel sailboat with ballast now - a step that I don't want to skip, and if I will take that path, then why not start with it all together. I wish to have a dry learning experience - really considered all the other options, not an easy decision.

Some specs in my mind:
Fin keel​
Spade rudder​
Tiller steered
Fractional sloop​ rig
Outboard
With or without cabin
No galley
Portable head or no head at all
As simple as possible

I don't want a trailer-able sailboat with centerboard, swing keel, wing keel, or shoal keel. I'll need a deep fin keel - and a dock, not a truck. Seaworthiness, fun, and ease of handling single handed is important for me.

Possibly an 18 - 22 ft keel sailboat to learn the ropes- I don't think I'll need anything longer as I am considering locations suitable for Sunfish and such.

A little reminder about me: I have no sailing experience, but some theorical knowledge. My eventual goal is to eventually be able to sail something 30 - 40 ft.

Is that a good plan? Am I missing something? A big mistake? Or whatever the community would like to say about it.

Thanks.

[BMD21]

A Catalina 22 with fixed keel. Indestructible, comfortable for a 22, easy to sail and with a quarter million made, cheap. If you want something racier, Capri 22.


Boris

[bil56]

why not sail on other people's boats first?
join a club, a sailing association, do your apprenticeship in a sailing/cruisng school,
over time, think about the type of boat you would like, and especially where you will store it!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Kite

I was planning to learn the ropes with something like a Sunfish. After the feedback I had had here, I decided to upgrade the plans. I want to start with a small keel sailboat with ballast now - a step that I don't want to skip, and if I will take that path, then why not start with it all together. I wish to have a dry learning experience - really considered all the other options, not an easy decision.

Some specs in my mind:
Fin keel​
Spade rudder​
Tiller steered
Fractional sloop​ rig
Outboard
With or without cabin
No galley
Portable head or no head at all
As simple as possible

I don't want a trailer-able sailboat with centerboard, swing keel, wing keel, or shoal keel. I'll need a deep fin keel - and a dock, not a truck. Seaworthiness, fun, and ease of handling single handed is important for me.

Possibly an 18 - 22 ft keel sailboat to learn the ropes- I don't think I'll need anything longer as I am considering locations suitable for Sunfish and such.

A little reminder about me: I have no sailing experience, but some theorical knowledge. My eventual goal is to eventually be able to sail something 30 - 40 ft.

Is that a good plan? Am I missing something? A big mistake? Or whatever the community would like to say about it.

Thanks.

I don't think the keel type, or rudder type is material to your mission. Water ballast is fine, swing keel/center board is fine. Transom hung rudder is fine, more likely perhaps in the size you are likely looking at. I don't think whether its fractional or not is germane either.

I would look at a trailer sailer with a mast that is easy to step/unstep by yourself, something that you can trailer easily with your current vehicle (suv, pickup whatever). In the say 22-27' range it will almost certainly be outboard powered.

Why eliminate galley/head boats? A mid-20's trailer sailor will almost certainly have a portapotty setup and a small galley likely with a portable propane or alcohol stove and a sink with a bunk or something. Will be nice to over night or weekend on. Heck you might even have a solar panel, a 12v battery, and enough juice to run a cooler and a fan overnight.

That's what I'd be looking for if I were you. Don't be thinking about what you think you can handle now if it will limit your enjoyment of the boat 6 months or more down the road. Believe me, quiet nights on the hook with a cold beer and a burger can be special, even on a man made lake somewhere

[Kite]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

I don't think the keel type, or rudder type is material to your mission. Water ballast is fine, swing keel/center board is fine. Transom hung rudder is fine, more likely perhaps in the size you are likely looking at. I don't think whether its fractional or not is germane either.

I would look at a trailer sailer with a mast that is easy to step/unstep by yourself, something that you can trailer easily with your current vehicle (suv, pickup whatever). In the say 22-27' range it will almost certainly be outboard powered.

Why eliminate galley/head boats? A mid-20's trailer sailor will almost certainly have a portapotty setup and a small galley likely with a portable propane or alcohol stove and a sink with a bunk or something. Will be nice to over night or weekend on. Heck you might even have a solar panel, a 12v battery, and enough juice to run a cooler and a fan overnight.

That's what I'd be looking for if I were you. Don't be thinking about what you think you can handle now if it will limit your enjoyment of the boat 6 months or more down the road. Believe me, quiet nights on the hook with a cold beer and a burger can be special, even on a man made lake somewhere

Yes, Transom hung rudder will fine. Fractional or not, maybe...

3 cyl. Mirage - I won't haul anything with her. Also, a cheap dock is ideal, or I will get lazy. There are fixed fin keel options with ballast; I would rather be in one of them.

I want simplicity. A little cabin with a porta Potti and an icebox won't break any deals, but at this phase, I don't want to fix galleys or marine heads or inboard diesels.

seaworthiness
ease of solo handling
something to learn sailing well
performance
fun

A simple keel sailboat.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Kite

A simple keel sailboat.

How about a simple full keel boat?

Some folks have taught themselves to sail on small full keel boats them crossed oceans on them.

I paid $1700 and then $1800 for my first and second Hobie 16's. The two Nacras I bought new.

For my Bristol 27 I paid $2,000 and have had it longer than any of my other boats including my 6-7 power boats.

It had a glorified porta potty (used to be plumbed in but due to old hoses and smell I capped off all that.

Outboard (new 5 hp 4 stroke extra long shaft Mercury bought new in 2011) No alternator.

New mainsail

Everything power by solar including my computers and autopilot, lights, fans, VHF, GPS, Solar.

Other small full keel boats include :

Contessa 26 (at least 2 circumnavigations)

My boat in picture last time it was in the yard 2018/19

Contessa 26 in video

Contessa 26 solo Atlantic Crossing

Cape Dory 27, 28, 30

Vancouver 27

and the rest are listed on the atomvoyages website

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/cla...ers-list-html/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3pcXWUZ5Pk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r3mno5oo7s

[thomm225]

This guy taught himself to sail on a Catalina 27 without an engine then later sailed a $1,000 boat to the Bahamas with some friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwbHYOFD-4

[Kite]

Originally Posted by thomm225

How about a simple full keel boat?

Some folks have taught themselves to sail on small full keel boats them crossed oceans on them.

I paid $1700 and then $1800 for my first and second Hobie 16's. The two Nacras I bought new.

For my Bristol 27 I paid $2,000 and have had it longer than any of my other boats including my 6-7 power boats.

It had a glorified porta potty (used to be plumbed in but due to old hoses and smell I capped off all that.

Outboard (new 5 hp 4 stroke extra long shaft Mercury bought new in 2011) No alternator.

New mainsail

Everything power by solar including my computers and autopilot, lights, fans, VHF, GPS, Solar.

Other small full keel boats include :

Contessa 26 (at least 2 circumnavigations)

My boat in picture last time it was in the yard 2018/19

Contessa 26 in video

Contessa 26 solo Atlantic Crossing

Cape Dory 27, 28, 30

Vancouver 27

and the rest are listed on the atomvoyages website

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/cla...ers-list-html/

So, you bought a Bristol 27 after sailing a Nacra?

These are romantic sailboats. Beautiful.

However, I'd say, "How about a J/22 instead?"

[Rumrace]

Shopping for a car with my daughter one day she said I feel guilty buying the convertible cause it costs so much. I said buy it kido someday you’ll drive a mini van.
She has 3 awesome kids now and drives a minivan
NY - 1999 Jeanneau 37 New Sails 2016, 2 cabin
Toronto C&C 34 2 Cabin $40,000 asking

Dive in my friend we were all newbs once and getting rid of small boats is never easy.
Boaters love giving advise. Sign up as a club member before you get your boat. Crew learn take lessons.

[Kite]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Shopping for a car with my daughter one day she said I feel guilty buying the convertible cause it costs so much. I said buy it kido someday you’ll drive a mini van.
She has 3 awesome kids now and drives a minivan
NY - 1999 Jeanneau 37 New Sails 2016, 2 cabin
Toronto C&C 34 2 Cabin $40,000 asking

Dive in my friend we were all newbs once and getting rid of small boats is never easy.
Boaters love giving advise. Sign up as a club member before you get your boat. Crew learn take lessons.

(for the convertible)

[Jim Cate]

Some specs in my mind:
Fin keel​
Spade rudder​
Tiller steered
Fractional sloop​ rig
Outboard
With or without cabin
No galley
Portable head or no head at all
As simple as possible

Kite, you have just perfectly described A Rhodes 19. Simple, sturdy, well mannered and there were 3200 of them built. They are seaworthy enough that there was a large fleet of them racing on SF Bay some years back, and I believe you could trailer one behind a quite small car.

Seems like most of the replies are urging you to go bigger and more complicated. I think your plan as described above is better.

Jim

[Kite]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Kite, you have just perfectly described A Rhodes 19. Simple, sturdy, well mannered and there were 3200 of them built. They are seaworthy enough that there was a large fleet of them racing on SF Bay some years back, and I believe you could trailer one behind a quite small car.

Seems like most of the replies are urging you to go bigger and more complicated. I think your plan as described above is better.

Jim

Yes, yes, Rhodes 19. I've already checked them out. A little pricey though, but why not - they seem to keep their value.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kite

Yes, yes, Rhodes 19. I've already checked them out. A little pricey though, but why not - they seem to keep their value.

Yes, the beauty of using a 40+ year old learner boat is that the age related depreciation is long past. If you simply maintain it in similar condition to that when purchased (ie none of the "upgrades" that folks always urge you to do), little or no loss in value will occur in a year or three.

My first boat, an O'Day Osprey day sailor cost me 1200$. I sailed the hell out of her for 18 months and sold her for the same price with people standing in line to make offers.

Jim

[cal40john]

Do you have Craigslist in your area? search sailboat then limit the length to what you want.

[Kite]

Originally Posted by cal40john

Do you have Craigslist in your area? search sailboat then limit the length to what you want.

So many places to find what I am looking for as soon as I know what I want. Seems as if both Sunfish / Laser and a small keel sailboat are good ways to start.