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cal40john · 16-04-2021, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full

I think I missed the point here. You mean the sail / rig on the Wave won't allow downwind sailing, and therefore it would be an inadequate trainer?

This is not what I intend to do; I'm just asking to understand what to look for in a sailing dinghy, merely a generic query... Let's say, if I were to try to gain muscle memory just good enough to sail a Gemini 35 in the future - no racing or performance cat sailing, just cruising purposes -, for that goal, what is there that Wave cannot offer compared to 16?

Please bare with the terribly worded question; I'm very interested in your opinion.

High performance boats get to a downwind destination faster by sailing on reaches rather than pointing directly downwind. Airflow attached to sails, make apparent wind, and more boat speed. Hobie Waves are slow enough that they wouldn't get to a downwind destination faster by reaching.

I wasn't thinking about your ultimate reason before. I would say that my keelboat experience was more directly relatable to sailing cruising cats than anything else. My only experience on cruising cats were charters I've done in the Caribbean on a Privilege 39 and a Kennex 445.

I am in the camp of having learned on dinghies that you are more likely to get a much better understanding of how to sail well that does transfer to most any other boat. So I think you starting with a dinghy is a good way to start.

lyl · 16-04-2021, 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Full, unless the athleticism of Sunfish type sailing is a plus for you, do have a look at things like O'day daysailors or Ospreys and others of that ilk. More kindly to aging bodies (don't know where you are in that spectrum), can sail comfortably in cold wx and water, can carry a cooler and camping gear if that is attractive, and sloop rigged which gives experience in a rig more like what later boats will have.

Jim

Jim,

The more I read about Day Sailor, the more I'm convinced. DMF and you officially have changed my plans.

Thank you.

lyl · 16-04-2021, 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Not to pile on, but a vote in favor of the O'Day: The principles in play sailing one of those are the same principles in play on your Island Packet full foil or your Beneteau Oceanis fin or your Pacific Seacraft long fin...

Whereas on a sunfish, while you do learn how to sail, you don't learn about the interplay between the main and head sail(s). And, ultimately, if you want to get anywhere on most monohulls, you need to learn that.

Agreed! Thank you. O'Day, here I come.

lyl · 16-04-2021, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal40john

High performance boats get to a downwind destination faster by sailing on reaches rather than pointing directly downwind. Airflow attached to sails, make apparent wind, and more boat speed. Hobie Waves are slow enough that they wouldn't get to a downwind destination faster by reaching.

I wasn't thinking about your ultimate reason before. I would say that my keelboat experience was more directly relatable to sailing cruising cats than anything else. My only experience on cruising cats were charters I've done in the Caribbean on a Privilege 39 and a Kennex 445.

I am in the camp of having learned on dinghies that you are more likely to get a much better understanding of how to sail well that does transfer to most any other boat. So I think you starting with a dinghy is a good way to start.

I got it now. I had read about reaching a little to understand. Thank you.

thomm225 · 16-04-2021, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full

Wow! At the moment, more people have voted for full keel. Perhaps, sailboat manufacturers would like to take that into consideration. This post seems like turning into a sort of marketing research!?

Most/many full keel boats are old and easy to purchase.

Plus lots of cruisers like the way they sail offshore.

For beginning monohull sailors they are not only less expensive usually but also can take the beating most newbies will put them through such as groundings, banging into pilings and the dock as you enter and exit your slip then another reason is if the boat is say 28' or less you can repower it with a new 5-6 hp 4 stroke outboard with 25" shaft for about $1700 to be placed on the stern on an adjustable bracket or in the well.

More on low priced full keel boats here.

https://atomvoyages.com/atom-html/

barnakiel · 16-04-2021, 04:34

In pure cruising terms (Antarctica, coral country, etc.). Fewer things to go wrong, fewer will.

**Hudson Force** · 16-04-2021, 04:38

I never had more speed and quick maneuverability than with my fin keel boat, but I only kept it for a couple of years. As an "up the lazy river" cruiser spending more than four decades gunkholing about shoals, strong currents and risking groundings; I needed my long keel contiguous with a protected and shoed rudder. If you want a forward profile that will ease to a soft grounding and allow careening for "do it yourself" bottom work a fin keel with a vulnerable rudder is not suitable.

Best boat choices depend upon how you plan to use the boat.

HeinSdL · 16-04-2021, 05:41

OMG, the full keelers are winning the poll! Never will we hear the end of this... Hopefully it won't become like the brexity "You lost now get over it!" mantra!

**Hudson Force** · 16-04-2021, 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

I would keel for a rhum.. I'm fin ished.

Didn't I hear this at the M&M's bar in Oriental?

**boatman61** · 16-04-2021, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Didn't I hear this at the M&M's bar in Oriental?

You could well have..

Motorsailer4me · 16-04-2021, 07:59

I grew up sailing Sunfish then moved to 505s ...trapeze spinaker planing dinghys..then raced Hobie 18s and Prindle 18s. Now to teach our kids we have these Hobie Tandem Island trimarans in front of the house. They can't flip, fill with water, have no boom to hit you in the head, the sail rolls up around the mast with one line, they have two sets of pedals and two paddles to get back home if necessary. 6 years now and they don't break.

Oh and we now sail a 46' motorsailer with a full keel because we are too old and smart to sail to weather lol.

lyl · 16-04-2021, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225

Most/many full keel boats are old and easy to purchase.

Plus lots of cruisers like the way they sail offshore.

For beginning monohull sailors they are not only less expensive usually but also can take the beating most newbies will put them through such as groundings, banging into pilings and the dock as you enter and exit your slip then another reason is if the boat is say 28' or less you can repower it with a new 5-6 hp 4 stroke outboard with 25" shaft for about $1700 to be placed on the stern on an adjustable bracket or in the well.

More on low priced full keel boats here.

Sir, I envy you; your Bristol is a beauty!

barnakiel · 16-04-2021, 10:03

I will disagree.

Think of it most offshore sailing is done off the wind. And most long keelers sail like **** downwind and on broad reach.

I think it is about simplicity, reliability and repairability. NOT about sailin-ability.

If we were choosing for typical offshore use, we would all have Bavarias, or better yet, cats.

If oceans had no shores, and repair facilities were evenly distributed, light and flat boats with very fine and narrow keels (and rudders) would be preferred.

b.