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View Poll Results: Full or Fin
Full 45 57.69%
Fin 33 42.31%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13-04-2021, 12:05   #46
lyl
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

I agree; when I look at a Wave, I can almost see a holiday resort at the background!? In the commercial videos, they made it look like a fast sailer though; for a moment, I thought that it could be a good single handed learning platform to get the muscle memory for future catamaran sailing. My worry is most of my sailing will be single handed, so I assume, maybe I shall stick with a Sunfish or a Laser, in the beginning at least.
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Old 13-04-2021, 12:29   #47
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full View Post
I agree; when I look at a Wave, I can almost see a holiday resort at the background!? In the commercial videos, they made it look like a fast sailer though; for a moment, I thought that it could be a good single handed learning platform to get the muscle memory for future catamaran sailing. My worry is most of my sailing will be single handed, so I assume, maybe I shall stick with a Sunfish or a Laser, in the beginning at least.
A Hobie Wave is much lower performance than a 16. It can teach some cat techniques like not oversteering through a tack.

It doesn't have a trapeze, and you sail it dead downwind as opposed to sailing reaches downwind.

I would not get a Wave to teach higher performance cat sailing. If you start out in lower winds a Hobie 16 is already a relatively low power cat and I think a good starting boat.

You can sail it single hand, but it is heavy to move around, and you need some sort of power righting system unless you only capsize in high winds.

I sail my Hobie 20 single hand in under about 12 knots of wind. I can get it up and down a shallow ramp with cat trax on my own.
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Old 13-04-2021, 12:31   #48
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full View Post
I agree; when I look at a Wave, I can almost see a holiday resort at the background!? In the commercial videos, they made it look like a fast sailer though; for a moment, I thought that it could be a good single handed learning platform to get the muscle memory for future catamaran sailing. My worry is most of my sailing will be single handed, so I assume, maybe I shall stick with a Sunfish or a Laser, in the beginning at least.
The Sunfish and Laser are both good boats, but don't compare to the speed and wave handling capabilities etc of an H16 and the Nacras.

I used to single hand my Nacra 6.0 all the time, but I had already been racing the H16's for a few years before that. The 6.0 main is boomless also which is different

My 4th and last racing beach cat was the Nacra Inter 17R which was the predecessor to the Nacra F-17.

Back then, early 2000's, it was a boat built for single handers to race with a mainsail and spinnaker only.

It still got wild though coming into the downwind mark, getting the spinnaker down, and making the turn to go back upwind while sheeting in the main and getting back out on the trapeze then resetting mast rotation and getting the daggerboards back down

Video is of some guy single handing his Nacra 6.0 without the jib. The 6.0 was the most stable beach cat I ever sailed. It would slice though the waves most times.

But if you lose control and flip or pitch pole a Nacra 6.0, you will not be able to right it alone without a water bag or something unless you get lucky with wind and waves.

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Old 13-04-2021, 13:24   #49
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
A Hobie Wave is much lower performance than a 16. It can teach some cat techniques like not oversteering through a tack.

It doesn't have a trapeze, and you sail it dead downwind as opposed to sailing reaches downwind.

I would not get a Wave to teach higher performance cat sailing. If you start out in lower winds a Hobie 16 is already a relatively low power cat and I think a good starting boat.

You can sail it single hand, but it is heavy to move around, and you need some sort of power righting system unless you only capsize in high winds.

I sail my Hobie 20 single hand in under about 12 knots of wind. I can get it up and down a shallow ramp with cat trax on my own.
I'm a middle-aged clumsy man. When I say clumsy, I mean it; some Jerry Lewis level clumsiness I'm talking about here!?

I surely won't ever get into some 'let's race a Hobie 16' kinda thing. I just want to gain muscle memory enough to sail a, let's say, 105Mc one day in the future - after obtaining enough training and etc of course. If a Wave can provide just enough muscle memory experience, than I'm perfectly okay with it. On the other hand, thank you for pointing out the sailing in low winds in the beginning idea - then certainly, 16 is the way to go.
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Old 13-04-2021, 13:31   #50
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
The Sunfish and Laser are both good boats, but don't compare to the speed and wave handling capabilities etc of an H16 and the Nacras.

I used to single hand my Nacra 6.0 all the time, but I had already been racing the H16's for a few years before that. The 6.0 main is boomless also which is different

My 4th and last racing beach cat was the Nacra Inter 17R which was the predecessor to the Nacra F-17.

Back then, early 2000's, it was a boat built for single handers to race with a mainsail and spinnaker only.

It still got wild though coming into the downwind mark, getting the spinnaker down, and making the turn to go back upwind while sheeting in the main and getting back out on the trapeze then resetting mast rotation and getting the daggerboards back down

Video is of some guy single handing his Nacra 6.0 without the jib. The 6.0 was the most stable beach cat I ever sailed. It would slice though the waves most times.

But if you lose control and flip or pitch pole a Nacra 6.0, you will not be able to right it alone without a water bag or something unless you get lucky with wind and waves.
I think a water bag is also necessary righting a Hobie 16.
And that Nacra is awesome. It also has boards that can be lowered, huh? You can get better angles. Sir, you had a blast.
You see Wave has a water drop shaped thingy on it's mast, so when it capsizes, it does not turtle. I read somewhere that sometimes wind could take it away because of that before it could be righted. That would be a such a bummer. I just imagined the possible expression on my ugly face as it happened to sail away by itself.
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Old 13-04-2021, 14:38   #51
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full View Post
I think a water bag is also necessary righting a Hobie 16.
And that Nacra is awesome. It also has boards that can be lowered, huh? You can get better angles. Sir, you had a blast.
You see Wave has a water drop shaped thingy on it's mast, so when it capsizes, it does not turtle. I read somewhere that sometimes wind could take it away because of that before it could be righted. That would be a such a bummer. I just imagined the possible expression on my ugly face as it happened to sail away by itself.
I've righted a H16 several times when I weighed around 170 or so but I was sort of lucky and once I lowered the mainsail to right it.

Both my Nacras had long 4' or so daggerboards and they could outpoint a H16 by double digits.

I used to single hand my Nacra 6.0 back from Pensacola Beach in the last afternoons back in the late 1990's and it was great!

I'd keep the leeward hull about half to 3/4 the way submerged and it appeared the boat was riding a rail from afar going across Pensacola bay
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Old 13-04-2021, 14:41   #52
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full View Post
I'm a middle-aged clumsy man. When I say clumsy, I mean it; some Jerry Lewis level clumsiness I'm talking about here!?

I surely won't ever get into some 'let's race a Hobie 16' kinda thing. I just want to gain muscle memory enough to sail a, let's say, 105Mc one day in the future - after obtaining enough training and etc of course. If a Wave can provide just enough muscle memory experience, than I'm perfectly okay with it. On the other hand, thank you for pointing out the sailing in low winds in the beginning idea - then certainly, 16 is the way to go.
I learned to sail in drifter winds on my Hobie 16.

Bigger wind made me nervous at first unless I was racing then I forgot all about the wind strength because I wanted to win so bad.

And btw, once you know how to sail and the wind is steady and you are out on the trapeze, you are no longer clumsy!

You just need to steer the boat and cruise along but on the H16 don't let the bows bury at speed or it's pitchpole time.

The Nacras have those narrow plumb bows and can recover. Not so with the H16.

The Nacras are a pain to put together though whereas the H16 is very easy. After the first few years, I usually found a place where I could keep my boats put together all the time.

In Florida, I lived at an apartment on the water and had the Nacra 6.0 and my newest H16 tied down just above high water and could sail off after just putting the sails on and raising them
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Old 13-04-2021, 15:03   #53
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Now a Sunfish can be tough as well when the wind cranks up it appears for a beginner. Check this guy's adventure.

A Sunfish might be the easiest way to go also to learn.

Little money. Easy to transport, store, and put together.

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Old 13-04-2021, 15:08   #54
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Now a Sunfish can be tough as well when the wind cranks up it appears for a beginner. Check this guy's adventure.

A Sunfish might be the easiest way to go also to learn.

Little money. Easy to transport, store, and put together.
He had a fun day though.
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Old 13-04-2021, 15:13   #55
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

You need a "long fin/protected rudder" option. The world has grey not just black and white!
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Old 13-04-2021, 15:31   #56
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

Speaking of Sunfish, a great way to learn how to sail and to swim at the same time. I was out today for a few hour day sail in the 45DS. The trade were bowing at 20 - 27 knots. We were on the west side of Bonaire and just did a loop around Klein Bonaire. When we were on our way back in we saw 4 Sunfish out in the waters between Klein Bonaire and Bonaire. They were having a blast in the 2 - 3 foot waves. I did not sail them a lot but I do remember them being great fun.
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Old 13-04-2021, 21:23   #57
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

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The only place I know in Kiel is the big old bar on the stone quay over to the right of the N entrance lock..
Nice beer..
So Kiel haul refers to the day the gang knocked over the Deustche Bank on Rathautsplatz ...
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Old 13-04-2021, 23:39   #58
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

personally i think centerboard is a better configuration for a cruising mono, than either a full keel or a fin keel

maybe we need a new poll / thread ?

cheers,
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Old 14-04-2021, 08:49   #59
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

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personally i think centerboard is a better configuration for a cruising mono, than either a full keel or a fin keel

maybe we need a new poll / thread ?
Brilliant!
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Old 14-04-2021, 10:58   #60
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Re: Fin keel or Full keel...

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....Also, is that just so when you’re keelhauled it’s manageable?
Oh, I got what you meant. That keelhauling joke was so funny the first time that it got even funnier when poorly worded the second time!?


Just kidding; giving you a hard time.
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