Composting head vs classic head

[Montanan]

Craps is a form of gambling: Will it flush, or won't it?

Texas holdem' is played when there is long line to use the toilet.

[Minggat]

To the OP,

“Smells like dirt” means that IF YOU SMELL ANYTHING AT ALL, it might be the smell of freshly turned soil. But you need to use your imagination. Most users report no smell.

As far as the amount of work you must put into it, wet sewage systems require maintenance, which can be quite unpleasant. Key words “can be”. Desiccating toilets regular operation does involve carrying containers, where wet systems require that you hire a pump out service, or move your boat to the pump out facility, or go out 3 miles to pump out. I have never left the slip just to empty the waste, but I remember many times “making a run” on friends boats out of the breakwater, which they were happy to call “3 miles”. Honestly, some wet sewage users don’t bother with those options. It depends on local administrations and what some wet sewage users can get away with.

The volume of waste from “composting” toilets is far smaller because there is no flushing water included, and the solids have been reduced by dehydration (except for those who target composting).

The “ick factor” is a perception, which I admit to going through before I actually bit the bullet and found my concerns to be non-issues.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

SNIP

I've always said composters are not for everyone. When considering full time cruising, they're really aimed at two, perhaps three adults. They make the most sense on mid-sized boats where space is at a premium.

SNIP

I know this is monohull group but since I am a multihull owner I have to point out that where weight is an issue a composting head has a huge advantage over conventional heads. Not just in the weight of the head itself, I can easily pick mine up in one hand while a conventional head weights lots more; and that does not include the pipes, thru hulls, holding tank, and what ever is in the tank.

[Montanan]

Nomination for the best marine toilet; preferably to be installed in the single shared head located between the portside and the starboard side cabins. Great place to carry on discussions; to think and stink together; or for a two person reading nook.

BTW, the picture was titled: I'll see your cuddle coach and raise you a love toilet.

[Montanan]

As to the whole ick factor.

Seriously, haven't most of us had either: Kids for which we changed a gazillion diapers, had a box trained cat to tend to cleaning and changing out, a dog we carry poop bag to collect and then carry their poo, a caged pet whose house needs to cleaned, or an elderly parent that was incontinent, or owned a horse and cleaned the stable. Or our own asses to wipe.

It is just excrement, wastes we all carry around with us inside before discharging. Mind you some being more full of it then others.

As for mine, well it nevers stinks.

Seemingly of more significance is to timely replace the supply of and thence to hang the toilet paper properly in its dispenser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10V5jp8ObmQ

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I know this is monohull group but since I am a multihull owner I have to point out that where weight is an issue a composting head has a huge advantage over conventional heads. Not just in the weight of the head itself, I can easily pick mine up in one hand while a conventional head weights lots more; and that does not include the pipes, thru hulls, holding tank, and what ever is in the tank.

Hmmm, good point Tom. Being a 15 tonner (my boat, not me ), weight matters not to me. But I bet it could have a big impact on a lightweight boat like a cat or tri. Even smaller monohulls would likely benefit from the lighter weight of a composter.

[fxykty]

Also a multihull owner. We had two wet heads, with the owner’s side one connected to a holding tank (and also direct discharge). 3 throughulls for one head! The guest hull head is direct discharge only. Still 2 throughhulls. To avoid reading a long post, we replaced the owner’s side head with a Nature’s Head. All good after one year.

I’ve no idea how old the hoses were, but the owner side was definitely funky. We decided to change the head to fresh water flush, increase the size of the holding tank (a lousy 40 litres), and change all the pipes. The guest side was OK and we decided to leave it as it’s not used that much and being electric has a nice fine macerated output.

I bought a new head, fresh water solenoid, and a twice as big holding tank (that could fit in the same space due to not needing its own macerator pump). Then it all sat for 6 months while I procrastinated starting the removal job.

One weekend I did it. OMG, that was gross. Despite all care I had 3 brown flood events during that weekend. After rinsing, washing and bleaching I can attest that the bilge, head compartment and holding tank locker are clean enough to eat off of.

BTW, the old hoses were about 1/3 usable diameter due to all the scaling or whatever that is. And heavy.

So now I had a nice clean bilge and a bunch of empty space, ready for the new toilet system. I measured that it needed 8m of new piping, the same electrical circuit, a bunch of elbows and glue, and two new valves (throughulls were fine).

Then I balked at the complexity I was reintroducing. And the weight. And the future maintenance.

Installed a Nature’s Head instead, after trying one out on a liveaboard friend’s boat over a weekend. That was one year ago.

As a guy I pee direct over the side to avoid filling the pee bottle, but my wife has no hesitation using it. We empty the pee bottle every three days or so. We put about 20ml of a probiotic septic tank cleaner into the bottle before use and it keeps the stored urine sweet smelling. And for RR’s benefit, the urine is not concentrated as the bottle is sealed and there is no evaporation. The pee bottle is emptied into the head sink.

We use coir bricks for the medium and get about 6 weeks between empties. We empty the unit into a small biodegradable garbage bag right there in the head - we don’t carry the NH anywhere. The filled bag, about 5 litres worth of basically dirt, is emptied into the ocean if we’re offshore and reused 6 weeks later, or taken to a dumpster. Is it more bacteria or pathogens than diapers?

The extraction fan is definitely needed and if it stops then within a day or two it gets humid and flies multiply. We use a sprinkle of Diatomaceous Earth once a week and that clears them out.

Bottom line for us, a desiccating head works just fine, keeps us legal in NDZs, and is way lighter and less complex than the wet head it replaced. YMMV

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

This is hilarious. Some people have different definitions of work. Another example, turning the handle to mix the solids vs. pushing a button to flush. Try explaining this to a child or a land lubber.

It's literally a 10 minute job (this includes refilling the head with new material) that I have to do once every 4-6 weeks, it's really not arduous at all

And anyone would would balk at turning a handle a few times instead of pushing a button probably isn't on my boat, I don't tend to sail with people that are that lazy/delicate

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by alctel

SNIP

And anyone would would balk at turning a handle a few times instead of pushing a button probably isn't on my boat, I don't tend to sail with people that are that lazy/delicate

Truth be told I spend more time on the electrical system on my boat than anything else. Every day I check how full the batteries are, how fast they are charging, probably once a week at least I check and clean the solar panels, and since I have flooded batteries once a month I check the level of the fluids and add water/chemicals when necessary.

I have to wonder where the electrical power the button unleashes comes from, and how much effort went into producing it.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by alctel

And anyone would would balk at turning a handle a few times instead of pushing a button probably isn't on my boat, I don't tend to sail with people that are that lazy/delicate

And if one user doesn't use the crank...the next user cranks and all is good.

[smj]

Originally Posted by alctel

It's literally a 10 minute job (this includes refilling the head with new material) that I have to do once every 4-6 weeks, it's really not arduous at all



And anyone would would balk at turning a handle a few times instead of pushing a button probably isn't on my boat, I don't tend to sail with people that are that lazy/delicate

I have a video showing our process of dumping the solids from our C-Head, start to finish was 17 seconds and that included walking the bin out to the cockpit. Maybe another 20 seconds to replace the material and reinstall the bin. Your absolutely correct, not arduous at all and less time than pumping out and less chance of touching my poop.

[sailorboy1]

Never knew there was so many marketing people on CF

[alctel]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Never knew there was so many marketing people on CF

Not marketing, just correcting people who are saying incorrect things about a system they've never used.

Again, it's not for everyone and I don't care if people use another system - but if they keep making incorrect statements which implicitly suggests I'm hauling cartons of raw sewage around my cabin every few days then I'll correct them

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by alctel

Not marketing, just correcting people who are saying incorrect things about a system they've never used.

Again, it's not for everyone and I don't care if people use another system - but if they keep making incorrect statements which implicitly suggests I'm hauling cartons of raw sewage around my cabin every few days then I'll correct them

Hmmm....

1. Who do you believe you are "correcting"?

2. What "incorrect" things?

3. Who "suggested" what you are claiming?

But now that you bring it up:

1. How frequently do you have to empty the container of undiluted, partially encrusted, acidic, collection of urine from all those aboard?

(I would expect, about every 6 days for an individual, 3 days per couple, or at least once per day with 6 or more users.)

2. How do you get it from the head area to the disposal area?

(Unless you pour it down the head sink drain (ewwwww) I suspect you have to carry it through the boat.)

3. How frequently do you have to empty the "feces / fibre" container.

(I would expect, about every 28 days for an individual, 14 days per couple, or at least every 5 days with 6 or more users. More frequently if toilet paper is placed in the unit, and if not, now we have another collection and disposal system, for raw feces in toilet paper.)

4. How do you get the bacteria and virus ridden feces / fibre mixture from the toilet to the disposal area (overboard or into a bag to be dealt with by others) without carrying it through the vessel from the head to the cockpit? (What about that toilet paper if kept separate?)

(I suspect you do not launch it up through a cabin top hatch.)

5. If dumped into a trash bag and dropped ashore in a refuse bin, especially when visiting remote and under-developed areas, do you always verify that the local waste disposal process is handled appropriately by individuals trained in handling human waste, and dealt with in an eco-friendly manner?

(I suspect like most others, once it is off your boat, you simply don't concern yourself with it.)

I have thoroughly considered the option of an "Effluent Separating Toilet"; after investigating the "true" facts, evaluating the "real" pros and cons, and applying my "knowledge and experience" with various waste handling and treatment solutions (locally and where ever I may go), I decided not to install one of these on my boat, so naturally, I do not have first hand experience with one on my boat (though I do have first hand experience with them for non marine applications).

Is there anything stated in this post that is incorrect?

If so, please advise?

[smj]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Hmmm....

1. Who do you believe you are "correcting"?

2. What "incorrect" things?

3. Who "suggested" what you are claiming?

But now that you bring it up:

1. How frequently do you have to empty the container of undiluted, partially encrusted, acidic, collection of urine from all those aboard?

(I would expect, about every 6 days for an individual, 3 days per couple, or at least once per day with 6 or more users.)

2. How do you get it from the head area to the disposal area?

(Unless you pour it down the head sink drain (ewwwww) I suspect you have to carry it through the boat.)

3. How frequently do you have to empty the "feces / fibre" container.

(I would expect, about every 28 days for an individual, 14 days per couple, or at least every 5 days with 6 or more users. More frequently if toilet paper is placed in the unit, and if not, now we have another collection and disposal system, for raw feces in toilet paper.)

4. How do you get the bacteria and virus ridden feces / fibre mixture from the toilet to the disposal area (overboard or into a bag to be dealt with by others) without carrying it through the vessel from the head to the cockpit? (What about that toilet paper if kept separate?)

(I suspect you do not launch it up through a cabin top hatch.)

5. If dumped into a trash bag and dropped ashore in a refuse bin, especially when visiting remote and under-developed areas, do you always verify that the local waste disposal process is handled appropriately by individuals trained in handling human waste, and dealt with in an eco-friendly manner.

(I suspect like most others, once it is off your boat, you simply don't concern yourself with it.)

I have thoroughly considered the option of an "Effluent Separating Toilet"; after investigating the "true" facts, evaluating the "real" pros and cons, and applying my "knowledge and experience" with various waste handling and treatment solutions (locally and where ever I may go), I decided not to install one of these on my boat.

Is there anything stated in this post that is incorrect?

If so, please advise?

You use two words, expect and suspect, which mean you have no first hand knowledge of the system and it’s workings. Your opinions would carry more clout if you actually had experience.