Americas Cup Foiling AC75 concept

[David M]

Let's just go back to 12 Meters and bore the hell out of people. Some sailors may like full displacement 12 Meters because they understand what is happening but the general public would find them boring compared to boats with foils.

If one does not like the increased risk of foils, then don't be a competitor. Most all sports have their physical risks...except maybe curling or badminton.

The Americas Cup should not be just for keeping sailors (a very small market) entertained.

[Don C L]

It'd be kinda cool to see a giant Moth where 20 crew have to run from one side to the other.

[alansmith]

But Jim Cate... at that speed during collision it could give a new nuance to the word "launched"... smile.

[alansmith]

Originally Posted by Don C L

. Think of the money that will be spent building the prototype alone. I could buy two of my boats for that. Maybe 3.

Don, u need to get out more often. Smile!!! Prototype boat will be well in excess of 10 million with design costs, tank testing, new castings of hardware and whatnot. You could buy several of your boats with just the costs of new suit of race sails.

That is why I know you were tongue in cheek when u said what u did. Made me giggle.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Don, u need to get out more often. Smile!!! Prototype boat will be well in excess of 10 million with design costs, tank testing, new castings of hardware and whatnot. You could buy several of your boats with just the costs of new suit of race sails.

That is why I know you were tongue in cheek when u said what u did. Made me giggle.

10 mill? Is that all? I'll take two, dahling.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Big Moths, but I have my doubts they will solve the engineering challenge of ballasted foils that will be regularly, and quickly, hoisted and lowered in such a large arc. Think of the forces on that hinge. Think of the money that will be spent building the prototype alone. I could buy two of my boats for that. Maybe 3.

You mean the costs for design, manufacture, and trialling ....the hinge! Mmmm.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by leboyd

But there's only going to be two at a time. Here's a Moth race with a lot of foiling Moths flying around (there are other videos):

Do they race these around SE Queensland, I'd like to take a look.

[lateral]

AC is a friendly (mostly) race between nations. It always (mostly) has been a technology battle which differentiates it from the myriad of other yacht races. Its unique; I hope they can pull it off as it hits the ball out the park in terms of difficulty and cost.
AC in the extreme. We will need a few billionaire to make this fly.
Immediately, weight is going to be crucial & RM in the transitions. Can see it in stability mode all the time = slow. Unless you put more an more sail up, which you can because of the added downward force from windward foil, loads will go up exponentially= breakages.
Carnage.

Self righting???
No end of questions. Still, AC 72's weren't supposed to be full time foilers. Learning curve is going to be straight up.Hope there VPP is not too much of an extrapolation.

[Factor]

Will they require stored power to operate the canting keels quickly enough? If so we are seeing motorboat racing

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Factor

Will they require stored power to operate the canting keels quickly enough? If so we are seeing motorboat racing

Is it still a motorboat if the stored power is generated by cyclists.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

You mean the costs for design, manufacture, and trialling ....the hinge! Mmmm.

I think the hinge could be easy, think two hinges, six feet apart, you rotate a beam that the foil is attached to.
One assumes the cyclists are charging an accumulator and not just direct driving hydraulics, an accumulator would allow for large draws of power intermittently.

We are in an age where just about anything you can imagine is possible, just takes money. But I guess that has always been true.

[gjorgensen]

When I see this thing, for some reason all I can think of is this:

[Chris 249]

Originally Posted by lateral

AC is a friendly (mostly) race between nations. It always (mostly) has been a technology battle which differentiates it from the myriad of other yacht races. Its unique; I hope they can pull it off as it hits the ball out the park in terms of difficulty and cost.
AC in the extreme. We will need a few billionaire to make this fly.
Immediately, weight is going to be crucial & RM in the transitions. Can see it in stability mode all the time = slow. Unless you put more an more sail up, which you can because of the added downward force from windward foil, loads will go up exponentially= breakages.
Carnage.

Self righting???
No end of questions. Still, AC 72's weren't supposed to be full time foilers. Learning curve is going to be straight up.Hope there VPP is not too much of an extrapolation.

On the other hand, it can be said that the idea that the AC is in the extreme is pretty much the dream of a few PR hacks. Compare your boat to a 12 Metre of the same era - with its wider, flatter lighter hull, fin keel and detached rudder your boat's clearly ahead.

The first America was basically a pilot schooner with more accommodation. The first challengers were cruiser/racers - one was the liveaboard home of the owners and came complete with a pet monkey. Twelves were very conservative - you can just step off a typical Beneteau or something and feel right at home.

There were a few extreme-ish AC boats like Reliance, but they were fairly quickly replaced by the Universal Rule/J Class boats. Herreshoff created that rule specifically to get rid of the extreme boats. The Js were big, but in design terms actually much less extreme than older boats. Same with the 12s.

Look at the major developments in the sport, and the AC lags decades behind the leading edge extremes. Multis had class racing in the 1870s, finally got into the AC in the 1980s. Bermudan sloops were in international small boat races in 1893, finally made it into the AC about 1930. Fin keelers with spade rudders were in small boats in 1891, made it into the AC match in the '90s. Laminate sails were in small boats in the '60s, in the AC in the '70s. Foam sandwich construction was in small boats in the '50s, in ocean racers in the '60s, in the AC in the '80s. Carbon spars were in small boats in the '70s, kevlar spars were in maxis in the '70s, made it into the AC in the '90s.

Compare an 1876 AC boat with Herreshoff's Amaryllis, an 1890s AC boat with a Half Rater or Unrestricted Patiki, a 12 Metre with Tabarly's wingmasted trimaran or his water-ballasted singlehanded racer, or even Australia II with a contemporary carbon wingmasted semi-foiling trimaran or a maxi boat and the America's Cupper looks positively mainstream.

Time and time again, the AC has been decades behind the extreme leading edge. The British boats normally just did all the usual coastal regattas year after year, and they mixed it with smaller boats to the same sort of rules. The AC boats weren't even the biggest boats around - the racing schooners and maxi offshore boats were much faster.

[Lanevdl]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Let's not get carried away here Don C L!

I think you'll find that the windward foil is made of a softer, more collapsible material than the leeward foil!

I think you'll find they'll be the same. Yachts do tack!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lanevdl

I think you'll find they'll be the same. Yachts do tack!

Whooooosh!