Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

[hpeer]

Well since I had to pay the fine on the boat I fail to see the distinction.

We tend to compalin about other countries policies while ours can be as bad.

[donradcliffe]

One of the joys of checking into other countries is that the rules are never the same. Research all you want, try to ask the diplomatic services ahead of time, but you will never be able to follow all the rules. Trust me, I have checked into 75 countries, and the rules are defined by the customs man on duty. Never challenge the custom man's knowledge of the rules, because he will make up new ones on the spot.

This is particularly true in the USA.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

One of the joys of checking into other countries is that the rules are never the same. Research all you want, try to ask the diplomatic services ahead of time, but you will never be able to follow all the rules. Trust me, I have checked into 75 countries, and the rules are defined by the customs man on duty. Never challenge the custom man's knowledge of the rules, because he will make up new ones on the spot.

This is particularly true in the USA.

This is why I carry CFR Title 46 and the B2 rules, MY FBI check receipts, my finger print receipts and my retinal scan receipts at my helm. I've had some miserable interactions with US CBP who did not know their own rules and were unafraid of making them up on the spot. Even worse are the under paid, under educated local water cops who have been given some authority over Cruising Licenses by Homeland Security ... I got several stories from hundreds of border crossings .

[HeinSdL]

Odd discussion I find.

When arriving in any resort (or anywhere for that matter including all EU and US airports) on a packed (charter) flight all arrivals usually do things like filling in forms, stand in queues, get looked at and maybe questioned by a customs officer in order to obtain a stamp to stay for a certain amount of time.

And then cruisers think they can simply drift into a foreign port and kind of decide for themselves what the rules are? I even read on here "As a USA citizen..." and then there is surprise at not getting your way? Humility anyone?

Now I don't like rules or big government and all that stuff, but a bit of organization does not go amiss.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

.........
And then cruisers think they can simply drift into a foreign port and kind of decide for themselves what the rules are? I even read on here "As a USA citizen..." and then there is surprise at not getting your way? Humility anyone?
.......

You forgot to add the "I'm spending my money here so you had better accommodate my needs..."

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Wotname

You forgot to add the "I'm spending my money here so you had better accommodate my needs..."

Well yes, but still...

Apply that in a restaurant, being rude to the staff, chef might well spit in your food; car repair shop, technician puts screw driver through radiator 'oops you have a leak'; bank, staff ups the charges. And so on. Just because you're the client doesn't take away from the fact you're still on someone else's turf and that someone always has ways and means to make you pay. Often without you even realizing it.

Maybe I read the incorrect message in your response in which case I apologize in advance, but showing up as a tourist is one thing. Showing up as a tourist on some private form of luxury transport (in the eyes of the official) is another. And then on top of that arriving with wads of cash in the mood for an argument will most likely invite the response: "Let's start by handing over some of that cash to me."

Especially if that official hunkers back to the days when he was a kid, when his islands wasn't run down by tourists with all their cash, and life was, if truth be told, so much better.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Well yes, but still...

Apply that in a restaurant, being rude to the staff, chef might well spit in your food; car repair shop, technician puts screw driver through radiator 'oops you have a leak'; bank, staff ups the charges. And so on. Just because you're the client doesn't take away from the fact you're still on someone else's turf and that someone always has ways and means to make you pay. Often without you even realizing it.

Maybe I read the incorrect message in your response in which case I apologize in advance, but showing up as a tourist is one thing. Showing up as a tourist on some private form of luxury transport (in the eyes of the official) is another. And then on top of that arriving with wads of cash in the mood for an argument will most likely invite the response: "Let's start by handing over some of that cash to me."

Especially if that official hunkers back to the days when he was a kid, when his islands wasn't run down by tourists with all their cash, and life was, if truth be told, so much better.

Yep, perhaps I wasn't clear enough...I was trying to say that expecting to get your own way because you have a big wad of cash is very disrespectful to the local rule of law.

[Talk Story]

The only pirates I ever met 20 years ago were wearing customs uniforms!

I checked in 4-5 different times in JVD, 3-4 passengers each time and each time it was a different cost than the last time I checked in. Sometimes it was more, sometimes it was less. It made no sense other than some shook me down for more than others.

Cost of doing business in a foreign land.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Problem with this tale is that is told in the third person.. the OP was not there so the whole thing is hearsay as far as I'm concerned..
Having dealt with the BVI C&I in the past I know they can be slow and frustrating at times but.. that's the nature off the beast.
Their country, their rules, if folk can't deal with it go elsewhere.

Hi, Boatman,
So, based on your logic, the testimony of a licensed captain(witness) in American/English jurisprudence would have no validity in a court of law for the determination of guilt? As well as the corroborating testimony of the cruisers concerning the behavior of the officials? I think you're thinking of Napoleonic Law . . . guilty until proven innocent. . . or perhaps, just an overzealous and ,perhaps, corrupt official who people want to excuse for his actions. Why? The bleeding hearts scream louder than the voice of reason in our Y2K miasma.
Rognvald

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by hpeer

No fine. But the threatened amount was $10,000 IIRC.

To characterize this as “just a stern warning” is to miss the point.

Hi, Hp,
How so? As it is said in American jurisprudence: "What harm was caused by their actions?" I justify the stern warning . . . I would not justify a severe fine for your situation. And, there was NO FINE. However, you won't make the same mistake next time? I again refer to the Canadian official who dealt with my ignorance of customs on the St. Lawrence and his civility and understanding. It's called CIVILIZATION.
Rognvald

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hi, Hp,
How so? As it is said in American jurisprudence: "What harm was caused by their actions?" I justify the stern warning . . . I would not justify a severe fine for your situation. And, there was NO FINE. However, you won't make the same mistake next time? I again refer to the Canadian official who dealt with my ignorance of customs on the St. Lawrence and his civility and understanding. It's called CIVILIZATION.
Rognvald

By their own account, they broke the rules.


They generally make the penalties punitive so that folks actually follow the rules.

[mbianka]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Well yes, but still...

Especially if that official hunkers back to the days when he was a kid, when his islands wasn't run down by tourists with all their cash, and life was, if truth be told, so much better.

Then their are the officials that have to put up with cruisers taking their precious pet(s) in their dingy to the shore so they defecate on the locals once pristine beaches.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Hi, Boatman,
So, based on your logic, the testimony of a licensed captain(witness) in American/English jurisprudence would have no validity in a court of law for the determination of guilt? As well as the corroborating testimony of the cruisers concerning the behavior of the officials? I think you're thinking of Napoleonic Law . . . guilty until proven innocent. . . or perhaps, just an overzealous and ,perhaps, corrupt official who people want to excuse for his actions. Why? The bleeding hearts scream louder than the voice of reason in our Y2K miasma.
Rognvald

Who said anything about validity in courts of law..
I said that the OP's gripe was based on the biased bitching from a skipper who was pissed off about getting busted for breaching the rules and not clearing in at the designated point, instead choosing to go elsewhere and pick up a mooring...
If your so concerned and feel the skipper has a valid case then appeal and sue on his behalf, though I think you'll find Napoleonic Law is practiced by C&I the world over..

[RaymondR]

If the skipper ignored the required clearing-in procedures and then whinges when caught out by the authorities it shows a sorry lack of philosophical development.

The correct attitude on his part is "Ah well I did not get away with it this time and took the wallet hit and that puts me financially behind no one to blame but myself and I probably should not do it again." Or " Well, that went well and I'll have a celebratory beer whilst I have a gloat about having got away with it."

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

I'm not taking sides, but I seem to remember a lot of threads on CF back in 2021-2022 about outrageous enforcement actions and behavior by the BVI Customs. Some were saying things like they have had their boat there for 15 years and are never going back.

This was right before the Prime Minister (and the Port Director?) got arrested in Miami for drug smuggling in 2022. He was convicted this last February by the way.

Like you, I can't take sides since I only know 1 of them... but, Yeah.
These BVI stories are all over the internet for those who think OP's first Post complaint is an outlier.

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Do we perhaps discern a sense of (mistaken) “entitlement” rooted in national arrogance here?

TrentePieds

Troll comments by a moderator, good grief.