Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

[JPA Cate]

Who might be willing to discuss US Customs are non-US citizens who have cruised to the US and were or are under Customs Control. Personally, I was shocked at how tough they are on them. If someone doesn't normally associate with foreign flag vessels visiting the US, there's no particular reason to know about it; but, it is not trusting nor welcoming. But, 9/11 made huge changes security-wise, and from a security pov, the Customs agent doesn't know the stranger at all, and should exercise suspicion, even when s/he is trained to be professionally polite. Remember, individuals take training differently, too.

Urotex and skipper were treated normally, but the skipper didn't "get it" that he should have apologized for the mistake, nor admit he had accepted misinformation. They got off lucky, and I don't think it was a bribe they paid, but a fine, demanded by BVI law, for committing a infraction of their Customs Law. Lucky it wasn't worse, especially if their had been an extreme aggravation with the preceding skipper, so they'd still have been riled.

The information's been out for a long time. The skipper blew it. I'm glad he was good with the charterer's kids, but he should also have been good with Customs--one always enters at the ports of entry, and goes to anchorage of choice afterwards--it's part of the skipper's responsibilities.

Ann

[Jim Woodall]

As a liveaboard cruising the U.S. east coast and Caribbean I have tried to follow all the rules, to the letter, when entering various countries. It is very clear not only from many online sources, but also word of mouth that the BVI authorities are sticklers for following the rules. I find it hard to believe that a professional captain, working in the Virgin Islands, would think arriving at White Bay was acceptable. If others have done this and NOT encountered problems, I would be interested to know.

[heron237]

First post to the forum, no hi how are you.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by rognvald

...
The reason they call countries "Third World" is that they do not conform to the normal practices of developed countries...

The use of the term “Third World”, initially, arose during the Cold War, and was used to define countries that did not align themselves with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), or the Warsaw Pact.
In other words, the term was used to classify countries that did not pick a faction, during the Cold War. Countries that aligned with NATO were considered part of the “First World,” while countries that aligned with the Warsaw Pact were part of the “Second World.”

The modern definition of “Third World” is used to classify countries that are poor, non-industrialized, and/or developing.
Countries that are part of the “third world” are generally characterized by high rates of poverty, economic and/or political instability, and high mortality rates - nations with the smallest UN Human Development Indices [HDI]*.

However, a country that is part of the “First World” is not necessarily better, in every way, than a country in the “Third World.”
Instead, the terms “developing countries” or “least developed countries” are increasingly used, in place of the term “Third World.”


But, if Earth is the third planet from Sun, after Mercury and Venus ...
Wouldn't that make every country, a third world country?


* Human Development Index (HDI)
➥ https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/hum...#/indicies/HDI

If You Shouldn't Call It The Third World, What Should You Call It?
➥ https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ld-you-call-it

First, Second, and Third World
➥ https://www.nationsonline.org/onewor...oogle_vignette

[singlespeed]

The one thing I have found consistent in the BVI's is a total lack of consistency between check in/out at the various Customs offices. Not only is actually getting a response on the radio from them iffy, but sometimes finding the office open during posted operating hours on the smaller islands is problematic.
AndDeshaies, on Guadeloupe, is the worst in the Eastern Caribbean. Sometimes there is an office or representative, sometimes there isn't.

[Zanshin]

I kept my boats in the BVI for about 15 years and never once paid the same price upon clearing in - despite having a temporary-import license which should have simplified things.
@singlespeed - up until recently clearing in at Deshaies at Le Pelican was always easy and fast. But since they've closed down the computer there the customs office hours are, as you stated, iffy. But at least it still only costs 5€, unlike the BVI where I've seen a French boat get charged thousands! It was the private owners of a boat in charter in the French islands, so they got charged the higher charter rate and despite vocal arguing they had no choice but to pay, or return to St. Martin.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Urotex

The skipper paid the "fine".

We had a lot of respect for the skipper.............

Because of that, we tipped over and above to help soften the blow. It was entirely our decision without any coercion from him.

So, the skipper went in to check in alone and left you on the boat. He came back telling of how he was extorted, but paid the fine out of pocket. You felt bad and tipped heavily to compensate (Though likely he expensed it to his employer).

Did anyone actually SEE the captain get extorted? There are not that many people working in the customs office. If this is a charter captain, it is both likely that he is in that office weekly and that he knows these folks by name.

Are we sure this isn't a ploy to bump up tips??

[Shrew]

My other thought....Everything I read says:

1) Call in ahead of check-in

2) Anchor and go in BEFORE entering the 'marina'.

If this is a legitimate breach of protocol, those two items would be it. Again, if this is a charter captain (and "it's not his first rodeo") he would have known that.

[Montanan]

If one is chartering, [bareboat or crewed; owner / operator, or just the passenger / renter] one is involved in a commercial business transaction which commercial service is subject to customs, duties, VAT, immigration, etc.

It is one's business [even if the nature of the business is family pleasure] to know ALL of the laws associated with the business and of travel / entry.

So as to the OP situation.

Illegal arrival utilizing a wrong port of entry, failure to clear C&I resulted in a fine and an hours long inconvenience and delay to be able to depart the vessel.

But the occurrence also was time consuming and inconvenient and very expensive for the C&I to have to patrol a different bay to enforce a simple law. Vessels and masters go to the customs office at designated ports of call; the customs office personnel do not travel to the boats at entry ports of "convenience" to a tourist or a charter boat operator.

Three hours for the Captain / operator to debate and process customs clearance and levies of fees and fines of $3,000. So about $1,000 per hour of learning what and how to enter properly. Well, that is on the inexpensive side of rates for the many lawyers involved in my business affairs but seemingly a reasonable rate for consuming bureaucratic personnels' time.

Sometimes there are as many as 15 lawyers on a videoconference so the tab runs around $25,000 - $30,000 per hour of discussion. Not a lot of social chit chat going on at those cost of gathering. One certainly does not request to have repeated readings of the pertinent laws by the authorities. Second reading being the same as the first, and similarly, the third, fourth, etc.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It didn’t say anything about a bribe. Why do you insinuate I did?

Hi, Jedi,
O.K. You didn't spell it out but, for me, you seemed to be on the side of the corrupt Customs boys. If I misread your remarks, I apologize. Otherwise, status quo.
Rognvald

[rognvald]

Why is it that so many Americans and Europeans accept being victimized by non-developed countries? How long do you buy into this mantra to justify putting another notch on your cruising belt. These practices eventually catch up with these countries and affect their economies greatly, and then, of course, can you see, first-hand, what happened to the once beautiful island of Haiti? Anyone clearing in at Port Au Prince????
Rognvald

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Why is it that so many Americans and Europeans accept being victimized by non-developed countries? How long do you buy into this mantra to justify putting another notch on your cruising belt. These practices eventually catch up with these countries and affect their economies greatly, and then, of course, can you see, first-hand, what happened to the once beautiful island of Haiti? Anyone clearing in at Port Au Prince????
Rognvald

Ass about face comes to mind.. and the White Privlige.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mise-of-us-aid

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Ass about face comes to mind.. and the White Privlige.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...mise-of-us-aid

Hi, Boatman,
Whenever an argument is weak and cannot be defended logically, the roar of "racism" rears its ugly head. Did I say anything about race or color? No, you did. Would it be different if we were talking about Bangladesh, Cambodia, or Kazakhstan? Do you find it offensive that some people in the world don't accept your tainted rationale for every bad actor on the planet and expect civility when visiting a country and spending considerable tourist dollars that help their local economies. A little consideration by the authorities would have gone a long way in this case and would have still achieved their objective. How many people will be told this story in the coming years and will forgo visiting these areas like has happened in Mexico recently due to the violence of the drug cartels and the innumerable travel advisories?** Some people just don't get it, Boatman and if you are sincere in your above remarks . . . your just another in a long list.
Rognvald


**
US tourism to Mexico slows down

The Guadalajara Reporter
https://theguadalajarareporter.net › news › national ›

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

I have to disagree. Antigua's officials believe that being rude and unresponsive to yachties is a fringe benefit to their overpaid salaries.

That CAN happen but it is not the rule. There seems to be no rule. Every time I go to C&I in Jolly it is different, even the same day.

For the most part they exhibit a grumpy official face, but quickly get over it if met with a humble smile.

That said my WORST EVER C& I experience was in the BVI. Soon after the 2017 hurricane, but still pretty dismal.

On second thought the worst experience was cruising the USA in the NY sector on a Canadian registered boat. I had to call every time I moved the boat and the officer frequently had no clue why I was calling or did not answer. When I did once move without talking I was threatened, and I mean THREATENED, with huge fines. And I am a USA citizen.

[rognvald]

", and I mean THREATENED, with huge fines. And I am a USA citizen." hpeer

Hi, H,
So, did they fine you as they did in the BVI or just a stern warning?
Rognvald