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Old 22-03-2024, 08:16   #61
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pirate Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Hi, Boatman,
Whenever an argument is weak and cannot be defended logically, the roar of "racism" rears its ugly head. Did I say anything about race or color? No, you did. Would it be different if we were talking about Bangladesh, Cambodia, or Kazakhstan? Do you find it offensive that some people in the world don't accept your tainted rationale for every bad actor on the planet and expect civility when visiting a country and spending considerable tourist dollars that help their local economies. A little consideration by the authorities would have gone a long way in this case and would have still achieved their objective. How many people will be told this story in the coming years and will forgo visiting these areas like has happened in Mexico recently due to the violence of the drug cartels and the innumerable travel advisories?** Some people just don't get it, Boatman and if you are sincere in your above remarks . . . your just another in a long list.
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US tourism to Mexico slows down

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I was referring to the attitude towards perceived "White Privlige" from 'third world' officials toward certain folks..
To be frank I have been treated worse by US immigration officials than I have by any Caribe or other country I have visited.. with the exception of Pakistan on the last couple of times I went there.
Reports of alleged corruption/bribes by officials are to few and far between for me to believe credible, more likely an ill mannered brusque yachtie unable to get to grips with island time and with a "when I say jump, you jump" attitude.
Also, there is a strong 'it's not like that back home' theme that echo's through the forum from time to time..
Your not at home, it's someone else's home..
Get used to it or stay at home.
As for Mexico.. the cartels are more interested in American junkies than US tourists.. they spend more.
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Old 22-03-2024, 08:30   #62
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

"Reports of alleged corruption/bribes by officials are to few and far between for me to believe credible," Boatman

Hi, Boatman,
Do you have any evidence of this statement or is it just your personal opinion?

"Also, there is a strong 'it's not like that back home' theme that echo's through the forum from time to time..
Your not at home, it's someone else's home..
Get used to it or stay at home." Boatman

So, get used to being abused if you want to travel outside of developed countries?
How does an undeveloped country become developed if they chase away dollars? It's a prescription for failure.

"As for Mexico.. the cartels are more interested in American junkies than US tourists.. they spend more. Boatman

Hi, Boatman,
Well, yes and no. Cartels are involved in lucrative kidnapping, robbery, car jacking of tourists . . . so no. However, the Yucatan has become a new site for drug tourism with all the attendant problems including many of the above crimes. So, yes. Cartels are fighting over turf and drug sales. Mexico is lost when the president tells the world that the cartels have more firepower than the Mexican Army. For the record, I lived in Puebla, Mexico from 1975-76 and traveled extensively throughout that once beautiful, safe, and friendly country. When a country loses civility and the rule of law, anarchy is the next stop in the road.
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Old 22-03-2024, 08:50   #63
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pirate Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

My opinion based on 13+yrs reading threads on CF.. and I'm talking Caribe not the Suez Canal..
Also personal experience having been travelling most of my life..

Maybe be more polite and less abusive when abroad would be a good start.. I see eoungh bad behaviour in Portugal alone by tourists who think their €/£/$ gives them a free ride.
I remember well some 20yrs ago when some Brit youths I knew went to Spain in a group for the first time.. they got pissed and when the law turned up assumed they could play silly bugga's playing Frisbee with one of the officers caps.. truncheons were drawn, bruises applied and a night in the cells followed by a fine and caution that a repeat offense would be followed by deportation and a life ban..
What you can get away with at home is not tolerated abroad.
As for Mexico.. its never appealed so not my problem.
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Old 22-03-2024, 08:54   #64
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
My opinion based on 13+yrs reading threads on CF.. and I'm talking Caribe not the Suez Canal..
Also personal experience having been travelling most of my life..

Maybe be more polite and less abusive when abroad would be a good start.. I see eoungh bad behaviour in Portugal alone by tourists who think their €/£/$ gives them a free ride.
I remember well some 20yrs ago when some Brit youths I knew went to Spain in a group for the first time.. they got pissed and when the law turned up assumed they could play silly bugga's playing Frisbee with one of the officers caps.. truncheons were drawn, bruises applied and a night in the cells followed by a fine and caution that a repeat offense would be followed by deportation and a life ban..
What you can get away with at home is not tolerated abroad.
As for Mexico.. its never appealed so not my problem.
Exactly. I have seen cruisers raging in customs or immigration offices because they were send away for not being properly dressed. I was impressed by how calm and patient the officers were.
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Old 22-03-2024, 09:35   #65
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pirate Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Exactly. I have seen cruisers raging in customs or immigration offices because they were send away for not being properly dressed. I was impressed by how calm and patient the officers were.
Yup.. I was told/heard that C&I at Pago Pago were real bugga's, however when I got there I was seen by the Port Captain who was a really nice guy and we chatted for nearly an hour over a cuppa..
Chinese whispers..
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Old 22-03-2024, 10:30   #66
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

"Maybe be more polite and less abusive when abroad would be a good start" Boatman

Hi, Boatman,
Yes, I agree but this wasn't the case as reported in this thread. Civility works both ways. However, we must stop making excuses for people, on both sides of the fence, who fail to respect the most basic levels of human decency. Too often, today, the default mechanism is conflict. This is not a winning strategy for either side.
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Old 22-03-2024, 11:08   #67
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pirate Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"Maybe be more polite and less abusive when abroad would be a good start" Boatman

Hi, Boatman,
Yes, I agree but this wasn't the case as reported in this thread. Civility works both ways. However, we must stop making excuses for people, on both sides of the fence, who fail to respect the most basic levels of human decency. Too often, today, the default mechanism is conflict. This is not a winning strategy for either side.
Rognvald
Problem with this tale is that is told in the third person.. the OP was not there so the whole thing is hearsay as far as I'm concerned..
Having dealt with the BVI C&I in the past I know they can be slow and frustrating at times but.. that's the nature off the beast.
Their country, their rules, if folk can't deal with it go elsewhere.
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Old 22-03-2024, 11:37   #68
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

I'm not taking sides, but I seem to remember a lot of threads on CF back in 2021-2022 about outrageous enforcement actions and behavior by the BVI Customs. Some were saying things like they have had their boat there for 15 years and are never going back.

This was right before the Prime Minister (and the Port Director?) got arrested in Miami for drug smuggling in 2022. He was convicted this last February by the way.
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Old 22-03-2024, 17:00   #69
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pirate Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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I'm not taking sides, but I seem to remember a lot of threads on CF back in 2021-2022 about outrageous enforcement actions and behavior by the BVI Customs. Some were saying things like they have had their boat there for 15 years and are never going back.

This was right before the Prime Minister (and the Port Director?) got arrested in Miami for drug smuggling in 2022. He was convicted this last February by the way.
If I remember correctly Zanshin was one of them.. but I could be wrong.
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Old 22-03-2024, 17:09   #70
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

my brother lives down there and won't go anywhere close to the BVI waters. that was long time before the covid fiasco. who needs it anyway.
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Old 22-03-2024, 18:09   #71
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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If I remember correctly Zanshin was one of them.. but I could be wrong.
You remember correctly, he was
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Old 22-03-2024, 19:21   #72
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

I just don’t get it. The Soggy Dollar Bar might be a fun place, but it is NOT a Port of Entry. The rules are crystal clear. You MUST first go to a Port of Entry. There are no exceptions. Where do these people get the crazy idea that flying a Q flag gets you a free pass from the rules? When a country clearly says you must go to a port of entry first, what kind of special snowflake things that doesn’t apply to them?

We have all been behind you in line at the immigration office while you rant and rave about rules that will not change just for you. We are embarrassed at your behavior.

If you go to the bar first, why are you surprised there is a fine? You violated the law. You KNOW you violated the law. They know you know. Why shouldn’t they be pissed at you and throw the book at you? This isn’t bribery, it’s law enforcement. It’s their country, you chose to disrespect them, yet demand respect back?

These entitled cruising jerks leave a very dirty wake behind.

I am reminded of a conversation we had with the immigration officer in Grenada. We asked what happens if somebody shows up without a zarpa. He laughed, and said, “The law allows a fine between $500 and $2500, at my discretion. I start at $500. If they choose to be a jerk about it, it goes to $2500. If they STILL want to be a jerk, they are refused entry, and are escorted out of the country, and will be refused entry for a year.”

I think that is perfectly reasonable. I am sure those people who get thrown out are ranting about how rude and arbitrary the officers were in that backward country were.
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Old 23-03-2024, 04:57   #73
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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", and I mean THREATENED, with huge fines. And I am a USA citizen." hpeer

Hi, H,
So, did they fine you as they did in the BVI or just a stern warning?
Rognvald
No fine. But the threatened amount was $10,000 IIRC.

To characterize this as “just a stern warning” is to miss the point.
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Old 23-03-2024, 13:00   #74
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

SailingHarmonie, could you please tell us what you REALLY think, don't hold back on our account.



Maybe they could post a sign on each of the moorings in White Bay which states a notice of: This is NOT a port of entry go to Grand Harbour, there is no get out of jail free cards in the BVI or at SDB.


Wishing bon voyages.
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Old 23-03-2024, 13:41   #75
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Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

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On second thought the worst experience was cruising the USA in the NY sector on a Canadian registered boat. I had to call every time I moved the boat and the officer frequently had no clue why I was calling or did not answer. When I did once move without talking I was threatened, and I mean THREATENED, with huge fines. And I am a USA citizen.
hpeer, the threat of fines was apparently due to custom's law violation of clearance for movement of the foreign flagged vessel. You as USA citizen would have no issue as to immigration.

Don't take the threat personal, it was not you, it was the boat.

I sure hope you sincerely said: "Sorry" on behalf of the Canadian vessel.

But then the newfangled Canadian flags do tend to garner considerably more attention by the Customs and Border Patrol and the USCG and local law enforcement officials than the old Maple Leaf version. As does singing the new lyrics of the anthem.

Oh Cannabis! Our home and native land!
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