Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-03-2024, 06:08   #31
Registered User
 
Networker's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Boat: Beneteau 40 CC
Posts: 260
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Soggy Dollar Bar live webcam.

Wave you are on camera.

Such a beautiful anchorage; miss that bay (but not its swell).
Networker is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 06:11   #32
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,621
Images: 5
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

"Nonetheless the BVI is widely accepted as having the least friendly C&I services. During the recent COI (Commission of Inquiry) it was discovered that millions of dollars of customs payment had been taken in, but never showed up at the offices in Road Town. Despites computerized receipts.." Zanshin

Yes, of course. The reason they call countries "Third World" is that they do not conform to the normal practices of developed countries. It's not that corruption doesn't exist, for example, here in the U.S., but that for the average person doing business day to day, it's a straightforward process as when one gets a new driver's license, boat registration, or in this case, clears into customs. The problem with these island nations who depend on tourism is that, for the large part, they cannot see the connection between tourist dollars and their lifestyle/employment. Islands that do it properly like the Cayman Islands are flush with tourism, investment and hard cash. The others ruin their reputations, economies, and employment by crime, corruption, and fear of travel. Cruisers need to vote with their dollars and patronize countries who welcome their travel and tourist dollars. Anyone read the reports lately on crime in the Windwards and Leewards? Oh yea . . . someone here just went there and had a great time with no problems . . . let's take their word for safety.
Rognvald



Jirie Caribbean
https://jiriecaribbean.com › Blogs
Top 10 Most Violent Caribbean Countries of 2023 UPDATE***see this heading
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 06:20   #33
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,621
Images: 5
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Here's another site less "tourist" friendly with the raw facts.
Rognvald

Month: November 2023

Caribbean Safety and Security Net
https://safetyandsecuritynet.org › 2023/11
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 08:45   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,537
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

There is a song that has lyrics that describe this situation that goes like:

"I fought the law and the law won."

Oh yeah, as to charter vessels, especially as to vessels from the USVI there are strict licensing requirements to be permitted to do business in the BVIs and there are cruising taxes and fishing permits to contend with upon arrival.

"If you have arrived by sea on a private yacht, boat or catamaran you will need to check in immediately at any one of the official POINTS OF ENTRY. There are Customs and Immigration offices in the following locations: Tortola, Road Harbour (at the ferry dock downtown) Tortola, Sopers Hole (West End) Tortola (at the airport) Virgin Gorda (St Thomas Bay) Virgin Gorda (Gun Creek) Jost van Dyke (Great Harbour)"

Co-Pilot's GPT-4 remarks on this subject inquiry are copied below, got to love AI.
Boaters entering the British Virgin Islands (BVI) must adhere to customs regulations. Failure to comply with these laws may result in legal consequences. Specifically, if a vessel fails to clear customs at a designated port of entry, the following penalties apply:

Conviction: The responsible party may face legal proceedings.
Monetary Fine: The fine imposed will not exceed ten thousand dollars or three times the value of the goods, whichever is greater.
Forfeiture: Any goods imported in breach of this law and the vessel itself are liable to forfeiture.
Therefore, it is crucial for boaters to follow proper procedures and clear customs upon arrival in the BVI to avoid penalties and ensure a smooth sailing experience

BVI press release from 2016:

https://bvi.gov.vg/media-centre/boat...ms-ports-entry
Boaters Must clear Customs At Ports Of Entry

Press Release
High Court Registry
His Majesty’s Customs
Topics: Customs, Revenue
Release Date:
Friday, 8 July 2016 - 3:24pm

Boaters arriving in the Territory’s waters are to clear Customs at Ports of Entry in order to remain compliant with the Customs Management and Duty Act.

The Customs Management and Duty Act Section 22 (1) states that the master of a vessel arriving in the Territorial waters from a place outside the Territory, shall not cause or permit that vessel to arrive at a place other than a customs port. Additionally, a person importing or concerned in importing any goods in a vessel shall not bring those goods into the Territory at a place other than a customs port.

Commissioner of Customs, Mr. Wade Smith said the issuance of this reminder is as a result of an increase in vessels arriving in the Territory’s waters and are not reporting to the Customs ports of entry.

The Commissioner added that failure to comply with the law may result in a conviction, a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars, or three times the value of the goods, whichever is the greater, and any goods imported in breach of this law and the vessel are liable to forfeiture.

Mr. Smith further stated that the law makes provision for boaters who were compelled by accident, stress of weather or other unavoidable cause to arrive at a place other than a customs port to make contact with the Customs Department after arrival. Note there is no special provision for pursuing the much in demand convenience of picking up a mooring in White Bay so as to have easy access to bellying up to the Soggy Dollar Bar.

The Customs Department remains committed to protecting the Territory’s borders and facilitating legitimate trade efficiently, effectively and economically in order to safeguard its well-being and security.

Note: This is not the first rodeo in BVI, granted this incidence was during enhanced clearance Covid protocols era:

Another vessel busted for illegal entry into BVI waters
IN ALL NEWS / BY: BVI NEWS ON NOVEMBER 19, 2021 AT 8:33 AM /

https://bvinews.com/another-vessel-b...in%20the%20BVI.

The Customs head said the operator of the vessel was fined some $20,000 for entering the territory without getting permission to land from Immigration and for going into a port that was not designated as a port of entry in the BVI. A passenger was fined $10,000 for giving false information to a C&I officer.
Montanan is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:05   #35
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,293
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Thank you, Montanan :-)!

I think that in respect of Urotex's whinge, we can conclude that all things unfolded as they should.

To quote MySaintedMother: "You don't have to LIKE it -you just have to DO it!" :-)

TP
TrentePieds is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:06   #36
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Shuttleworth Advantage
Posts: 2,346
Images: 3
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
There is a song that has lyrics that describe this situation that goes like:

"I fought the law and the law won."

The law is the law and the law should be adhered to. There is no excuse for officers of the law being outright rude and obstructive.
Tupaia is online now  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:12   #37
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,678
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
They took a bribe, Jim. Is that police protocol?
Rognvald
It's not official protocol but it is not unheard of in various places.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
Adelie is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:18   #38
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,185
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

In most countries incl. the US one would be arrested, handcuffed and put in jail. Then the lawyers start.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:54   #39
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,621
Images: 5
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
In most countries incl. the US one would be arrested, handcuffed and put in jail. Then the lawyers start.

The U.S.? C'mon Jedi . . . that's a real over reach based on the purported "facts" of this case when referring to U.S.Customs in re: cruisers. No benefit of doubt/instructions and a fast shakedown???????
Rognvald
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 09:59   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 67
Images: 3
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urotex View Post
Follow up:

The captain was a professional and has worked in the USVI/BVI for years.
He came with the boat charter along with a chef.
This was not his first rodeo. This has never happened to him before and he doesn't have a record of infractions in the BVI.

We were not the only boat in the same predicament. The other owner/captain who was "caught" about the same time as us was going off in the Customs office, while ours remained calm.

Perhaps it was training day, but they had no problem pocketing $3000 in "fines" while threatening $15,000 or impounding the boat. So in the end, they said that they did us a favor. Lucky us.

$3000 in Fines ? It sounds like they 'rolled' you ! I'm glad the "Professional Captain" paid that fine and NOT YOU ! It wasn't YOUR Fault !
tsenator is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 10:17   #41
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,185
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
The U.S.? C'mon Jedi . . . that's a real over reach based on the purported "facts" of this case when referring to U.S.Customs in re: cruisers. No benefit of doubt/instructions and a fast shakedown???????
Rognvald
I have seen it happen. If we, being a foreign registered yacht, sail into a bay that is not a port of entry and anchor or pick up a mooring and US CBP catches us in the act, you get arrested.
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 10:38   #42
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,621
Images: 5
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I have seen it happen. If we, being a foreign registered yacht, sail into a bay that is not a port of entry and anchor or pick up a mooring and US CBP catches us in the act, you get arrested.
Hi, Jedi,
So, shakedown, bribe and then off to jail???? U.S. Customs????
I understand the law and we experienced it first-hand in Canada before we officially cleared into our first port on the St. Lawrence and dropped the hook "illegally" in a nearby bay. They weren't happy when I called via sat phone but were firm, courteous and directed us to the closest port where we cleared in with no problems. No fine, no impoundment, didn't take 3 hours . . . easy peasy. Thank you Canada for your civility and polite consideration to a long-time visitor to your beautiful country.
Rognvald
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 11:11   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,537
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupaia View Post
The law is the law and the law should be adhered to. There is no excuse for officers of the law being outright rude and obstructive.
Repeatedly reading the text of the applicable law is not being rude or obstructive. C&I does not make the laws they just administer them.

The prompt approach of a C&I enforcement patrol upon observing that a vessel that has arrived and not cleared C&I which instead made a non-legal port of entry and established a mooring is totally appropriate for C&I. Definitely not a rude or obstructive action.

Following the standard protocol of C&I citation and fines / detention is appropriate, what is not appropriate is selective enforcement of transgressions of the simple law, especially if dealing with a professional charterer that knows the requirements of C&I of a master of a vessel. Now if the charter boat had been a bareboat charter and the persons on-board had not been to the BVI before then perhaps a bit of slack might have been cut for a first time offense albeit with cooperative corrective action taken by the transgressor.

C&I procedures are routine and simple and well published. They are not a grey zone.

Fortunately, it seems that there were no visa issues for those onboard as that would have invoked a departure of the vessel. Free Pratique would not have been granted and the vacationers would not have been able to enjoy the BVI.
Montanan is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 11:13   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,537
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

In Canada, saying Sorry goes a long ways.

Just saying.
Montanan is offline  
Old 20-03-2024, 12:04   #45
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,185
Re: Jost Van Dyke Customs Shakedown

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Hi, Jedi,
So, shakedown, bribe and then off to jail???? U.S. Customs????
I understand the law and we experienced it first-hand in Canada before we officially cleared into our first port on the St. Lawrence and dropped the hook "illegally" in a nearby bay. They weren't happy when I called via sat phone but were firm, courteous and directed us to the closest port where we cleared in with no problems. No fine, no impoundment, didn't take 3 hours . . . easy peasy. Thank you Canada for your civility and polite consideration to a long-time visitor to your beautiful country.
Rognvald
It didn’t say anything about a bribe. Why do you insinuate I did?
__________________
“It’s a trap!” - Admiral Ackbar.

s/v Jedi is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
customs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mysterious curve in the dyke that was blown up in WW2. Peter Bosman Our Community 1 16-03-2019 16:46
Video of Jost van Dyke, BVI Zanshin Atlantic & the Caribbean 12 03-02-2015 11:26
1974 Ray Greene Rascal 14 Shakedown Cruise StoneBob Monohull Sailboats 1 10-08-2010 14:27
Crew Wanted: Caribbean Shakedown Cruise jimhotdog Crew Archives 9 27-09-2009 11:24
Shakedown sail... ssullivan Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 8 08-05-2006 16:15

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.