Vaccine Certification Restriction of Travel

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Mother1ship

... no, I will not be taking this vaccine willingly. My terror is that my government will find a way to compel me to take it.

My terror is that a substantial number of people trust ignorant fearmongering over abundant and clear scientific evidence, and the statistics around the relative risks of vaccines vs the illnesses they help prevent.

[B23iL23]

Good man!

Originally Posted by bensolomon

Tell her I said, Thank you! I am an intensive care unit physician and received my first dose yesterday. I am ecstatic and finally feel like I will not die taking care of these covid patients because of people like your wife. My sincerest thanks!!!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XWY8u3zXjbh8PrLg9

Ben

[Discovery 15797]

There has never been a health crisis in the world that has generated so much mass hysteria, misinformation, and disinformation. (Except maybe the black plague, but they didn't have 24/7 worldwide mass media at that time.)

I still have lots of questions. For example, if the vaccine helps our bodies build anti-bodies that help fight off the virus, do the people who were exposed to SARS-Cov-2 virus have anti-bodies the help fight off the virus also? If not, why? And, if anti-bodies do not have long term benefit will everyone over 16 be required to get 2 shots 21 days apart until they turn 80? (Please don't attempt to answer unless your a virologist who has written a peer reviewed study on the difference between natural anti-bodies post viral infection compared to anti-bodies developed from the vaccine.)

If the vaccine has negative side effects it won't matter because all our medical personnel and first responders and most government politicians are the first to be inoculated. If their arms start falling off, or they turn into zombies...the world will descend into chaos and we will be more worried about fighting of hordes of zombies than having some gendarme checking for a stamp in our yellow card. (Of course we all probably agree that all politicians are already brainless zombies.)

If it takes a few years before every person who is inoculated turns into a zombie...well...there will be no sailing anywhere because everyone knows that zombies don't know how to sail, and nobody wants to sail to an island filled with zombies.

As for me...I have had yellow cards since 1977. They are not new to me. The US gov't injected me with who knows what before each deployment and I'm still here. (And look at Keith Richards...he's probably put more crap into his body then anyone knows, and he'll live longer than any of us.)

So yes, I will get the vaccination if it allows me to escape the utter lunacy and mass idiocy that is so prevalent in 1st world nations.

And if some years later I turn into a zombie from the vaccine, and you didn't get the vaccine and come across me then you can say to yourself..."hey zombie...I bet now you wish you didn't get that covid vaccine," just before you shoot me in the head...(remember...only head shots kill zombies).

[kazo]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

I will get the shot as soon as it is available to me. I’m still having fun spending my children’s inheritance......

having exactly the same thoughts

[barnakiel]

Yep.


This is the covid vac landscape 2021.


Some will have it, others will not.


Cruisers are definitely not the first in line.


I will get shot. John will not. I do not have any problem with this set up.


The point is not for every single soul to get shot. Only the number necessary to hold the virus down. Eradication of the virus is NOT an option.


I think the whole effort into creating a new vac that fast will pay back in every next Ebola, Sars, Mers, Flu, etc. pandemics.



barnakiel

[Mike OReilly]

For everyone who chooses not to get the vaccine, it just places a little more burden on the rest. Our societies can accommodate a certain number of free riders, as well as all the people who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons, but each one makes it a little harder for everyone.

Vaccines work by protecting the individual to some degree, but their real benefit comes in how it protects all of us. It's like a firebreak that stops the conflagration. But any gaps in the firebreak weakens the whole, and makes it that much less likely to work.

This is why we're seeing an uptick in some diseases that were once well controlled. As anti-vax sentiment has grown, it is creating these gaps in the firebreak. These not only threaten the people who choose to go unvaccinated, it threatens all of us.

This gets back to the unfortunate need for some sort of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine passport. It's a modest attempt at closing the gaps made by people who choose to go unvaccinated.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's not, "non-sense". There are 39,00 Australians stranded abroad. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/us...3E4XOLRTI2W3E/

Returning home to Australia is subject to quite severe quotas. Not only that, but Aussies are banned from leaving, too. This is a unique situation in the world, and is widely criticized as a human rights violation. Even Russia doesn't restrict movement of its citizens like this, and such restrictions would be constitutionally impossible in most civilized countries.
.............

No... it is not unique.... New Zealand is doing the same.... so how can it be unique??
Australians are not 'banned' from leaving.... I can leave whenever I want to and go where ever I want as can anyone with a half decent reason for travel which does not involve simply a fortnight in Bali.

The weird thing re returning Australians is that the more that return .... the more there are wanting to return....

Meanwhile across the ditch....
'On Monday Immigration lawyer Richard Small said the scarcity of flights and MIQ vouchers meant that travellers may be hoarding vouchers for multiple dates, clogging up the system. He told RNZ it was evident that the systeem was overrun by "desperate people, behaving in a desperate way and just booking everything they can see that pops up".

MBIE says that around of five to eight rooms a day were being left unsused, due to 'no show' passengers and travellers holding additional unsused vouchers.'

Scarcity of flights and dickhead behaviour.....

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This gets back to the unfortunate need for some sort of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine passport. It's a modest attempt at closing the gaps made by people who choose to go unvaccinated.

Yes. No one needs to be vaccinated if they would prefer to live alone. But of course they don't want to live that way.

Those who do believe in vaccinations have always been a large majority and have frequently restricted the movement of those who don't. You really can't blame it on the government or the drug companies - the great majority of voters want it.

This is nothing new. Before we could prevent disease with a vaccine, we isolated sick people in special camps - that's why the leper wanted Jesus to cure him.

[MickB]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

Quantas already announced they will require proof of vaccination to be allowed onboard. That is forced vaccination.

A. There is no "u" in QANTAS.
B. The CEO of QANTAS claims he didn't make the statement.
C. From an OH&S prospective not allowing anti-vacxers to board makes perfect sense, not exposing staff and other passeangers to possible harm.
D. No one is forced to fly on any particular airline.
E.. If it was true it would be my choice to fly only QANTAS.

"Forced"? No it's choice, you choose not to have the vaccine QANTAS choose not to carry you.

[Pegu Club]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

Quantas already announced they will require proof of vaccination to be allowed onboard. That is forced vaccination.

No, no it’s not. They are free to impose those regulations to use their services, and you are free to not use their services. It is your free choice to restrict your movements around our planet. It is a choice for you to make.

Fair winds,

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In the U.S., forced vaccination, even directly forced vaccination, is legal and constitutional, if it's ordered by a state (Federal government has no such power). The Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), 115 years ago, decided that, and it's still valid law.

This was mentioned along with far more in the New York Times articles I referenced earlier, which included multiple images from newspapers in circulation in 1918.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So far the vaccine offers limited (yet to be proved, if any) immunity and requires the same precautions as someone with no vaccination.. mask, space etc.
So as far as I am concerned this is likely to turn out to be just like the annual Corona virus flu shot to be boosted every few months with no guarantee of immunity.. just like the flu shot.
To date I have never had a flu shot, nor a Yellow Fever shot despite having transitted the Panama Canal.. same with Dengue and Malaria.
Seems to me this is driven by hysteria.. Covid, one gets it 99% recover some die..
Influenza, one gets it, most recover, some die.. as for so called Long Covid I am yet to be convinced seeing as there are those who suffer constantly from the effects of something or other.
If Certificates are made compulsory for travel I guess I'll just close my web site and stop deliveries.. leave space for the 'Nanny Staters'..

There are many flaws in what you have written- or were you joking? (can't tell)
1. The annual flu shot is just a guess at maybe 3 strains of viruses that MIGHT be spreading in a future flu season. That guess is not always correct.
The new covid vaccines are NOT guesses.
2. "yet to be proved" immunity is false. Why do you think this? In fact, the efficacy testing for these vaccines has been straightforward because there are so many places where the virus is still rapidly spreading. (The Ebola vaccine testing was hindered by only small outbreaks) It's not rocket science. Give thousands the vaccine and give thousands the placebo at the same time, randomly, without revealing up front who got what. After enough time to have many confirmed virus infections, count up the infections and reveal whether the infected individuals had received the vaccine or placebo. If 95% of these total infections were in individuals who only got the placebo, then Bob's your uncle. (voilà) Proven.

There are many good questions, but you are not asking them, as you seem lost in a sea of misunderstanding. Can the immunized person carry the virus without getting sick? We don't know. Are there any long-term health effects of tricking your cells (with mRNA) into producing spike proteins? We don't know. Will enough people get a vaccine to eradicate this thing, in spite of all the weird misconceptions? We don't know.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Most countries consider it a right to return to your own country of residence. AFAIK only Australia has not allowed own citizens to freely return.


You can however put returning citizens into quarantine, which the U.S. did not do.

I’m not asking about rights I meant if this were sufficiently contagious and deadly then stopping the rapid transit would be the ideal method as a first tactic. Heck it’s the ideal first method to stop anything.

And to your point of quarantine we can’t even get people to consider masks, distancing, or maybe even hand washing.

[JRSHAW]

Originally Posted by wingssail

In all these cases people will have concluded that unvaccinated people would be a danger to others in their facility. They have a right to conclude that and to make restrictions to the use of their facility to protect their users, customers, etc.

In none of the instances you mentioned are you forced to get vaccinated, you are simply prevented from using the facility without the vaccination. You always have a option of non-participation.

Persisting in a view which is not science based, but which is based on conspiracy theories, rumors, and cockeyed ideas is going to put you in with other like thinkers and likely cause you much inconvenience. You have a right to think that way, but others are under no obligation to allow you to endanger them because of your views.

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Very well said

[JRSHAW]

Originally Posted by MickB

A. There is no "u" in QANTAS.
B. The CEO of QANTAS claims he didn't make the statement.
C. From an OH&S prospective not allowing anti-vacxers to board makes perfect sense, not exposing staff and other passeangers to possible harm.
D. No one is forced to fly on any particular airline.
E.. If it was true it would be my choice to fly only QANTAS.

"Forced"? No it's choice, you choose not to have the vaccine QANTAS choose not to carry you.

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Well said