Vaccine Certification Restriction of Travel

[Mike OReilly]

As far as I've heard, no one is being forced to take the vaccine. You're free not to do so. But the rest of society is also free ... free not to be exposed to non-vaccinated people.

As others have said, the so-called "vaccination passport" has been around for a long time, and has been enacted at various times, in various ways. In Canada many schools, and some workplaces, require people either be vaccinated, or they stay away during outbreaks. I think this approach is common through out the developed world.

We are in a pandemic, so those who choose not to be vaccinated are putting everyone else at risk (just like those who choose not to wear masks in close quarters). These people have the freedom to make this choice, but everyone else also has the freedom not to suffer for your choice.

That's how freedom works. Yes, you are free, but so am I .

BTW, I personally think it's unfortunate societies must turn to these "passport" measures. If people understood that rights come with responsibilities, and your freedom to swing your arm stops at my face, then we wouldn't need to enact such things. But sadly, too many people take a purely selfish attitude to these kinds of things these days. Hence the need for a more bureaucratic response.

[UFO]

Why do they not test for immunity before vaccination? Surely it would help getting the vaccine out to more of those that need it? If they can create a vaccine in record time and produce the amounts they have so quickly, then testing should be a walk in the park.



Also why not immunity testing for your passport as well?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

Your employer will force you to get vaccinated to come to the office.
You will not be allowed in any public events, sport , theater, concerts anywhere there’s a crowd without vaccine passport. That is forced vaccination.
Your children will not be allowed in school without vaccine passport , that is forced vaccination.
You will not be allowed to fly or ride any type of public transportation without vaccine passport, that is forced vaccination.
You will not be allowed across any borders without a vaccine passport, that is forced vaccination.

In all these cases people will have concluded that unvaccinated people would be a danger to others in their facility. They have a right to conclude that and to make restrictions to the use of their facility to protect their users, customers, etc.

In none of the instances you mentioned are you forced to get vaccinated, you are simply prevented from using the facility without the vaccination. You always have a option of non-participation.

Persisting in a view which is not science based, but which is based on conspiracy theories, rumors, and cockeyed ideas is going to put you in with other like thinkers and likely cause you much inconvenience. You have a right to think that way, but others are under no obligation to allow you to endanger them because of your views.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Am I missing something? It seems after being vaccinated you can still contract covid 19. And you can carry and spread it. You may be slightly affected or asymptomatic but in the final analysis you can still be a spreader. So it only protects the vaccinated and will do little to stop the spread. Will we then still require a test (negative) to travel?

To those who doubted the above here's the facts, above is true. From Pfizer CEO!

As the race to create COVID-19 vaccines rages on, with two candidates likely coming to market this month, it’s it’s worth taking a moment to recognize that despite all the apparent successes, there’s still a lot we don’t know about how these vaccines will work. Case in point: the CEO of Pfizer, which produced a vaccine that’s said to be more than 90 percent effective, says the company doesn’t yet know whether people who’ve been vaccinated can still carry the virus, potentially spreading it to others.

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla appeared on “Dateline NBC”Thursday night, alongside the CEOs of Moderna and Johnson & Johnson, whose companies are also working on vaccines. The three participated in a joint interview to lay out the challenges ahead—including distributing potentially billions of vaccine doses to people around the world. That’s no simple logistics problem, though the companies seem confident it can be solved.


Yet there are more fundamental questions about the post-vaccine future, including whether people who’ve been vaccinated may be able to spread the virus to others. "I think this is something that needs to be examined,” Bourla told Dateline. “We are not certain about that right now."

That particular aspect hasn’t been studied yet. “There is a theoretical risk that you could pass the virus on to others despite being vaccinated,” says Kirsten Hokeness, Ph.D., director of Bryant University’s new Center for Health and Behavioral Sciences. And we definitely need more answers before people stop wearing masks.

[boatman61]

So far the vaccine offers limited (yet to be proved, if any) immunity and requires the same precautions as someone with no vaccination.. mask, space etc.
So as far as I am concerned this is likely to turn out to be just like the annual Corona virus flu shot to be boosted every few months with no guarantee of immunity.. just like the flu shot.
To date I have never had a flu shot, nor a Yellow Fever shot despite having transitted the Panama Canal.. same with Dengue and Malaria.
Seems to me this is driven by hysteria.. Covid, one gets it 99% recover some die..
Influenza, one gets it, most recover, some die.. as for so called Long Covid I am yet to be convinced seeing as there are those who suffer constantly from the effects of something or other.
If Certificates are made compulsory for travel I guess I'll just close my web site and stop deliveries.. leave space for the 'Nanny Staters'..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Vasco
Am I missing something? It seems after being vaccinated you can still contract covid 19. And you can carry and spread it.

Originally Posted by Vasco

To those who doubted the above here's the facts, above is true. From Pfizer CEO!

As the race to create COVID-19 vaccines rages on, with two candidates likely coming to market this month, it’s it’s worth taking a moment to recognize that despite all the apparent successes, there’s still a lot we don’t know about how these vaccines will work. Case in point: the CEO of Pfizer, which produced a vaccine that’s said to be more than 90 percent effective, says the company doesn’t yet know whether people who’ve been vaccinated can still carry the virus, potentially spreading it to others.

Perhaps your intent in the original statement did not come through accurately, but as written, you are incorrect. The correct statement is as you quoted from the Pfizer CEO: We Don't Yet Know.

We don't yet know if vaccinated individuals can still carry the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The vaccines appear to prevent Covid-19, but do they help the body's immune system destroy the virus, or do they simply prevent them from getting into our cells, and hence replicating.

It's an important question, but one that is somewhat moot. Even if the vaccine does not trigger the body's immune system to kill the virus, by not allowing reproduction the virus will die off. And by preventing the disease from progressing, it means the the main process of transmission: coughing, sneezing, excessive mucus production, is also curtailed.

So while it is unclear at this point whether the vaccine stimulates a direct destruction of SARS-CoV-2, the result is similar.

[AiniA]

Before we headed off cruising we updated our vaccinations and travelled with our 'yellow card' in a folder with our passport. The only required vaccination we ran into was for yellow fever. In a few countries you had to prove yellow fever vaccination if you had been in a country that still had YF. You have the right to not get a YF vaccination, they have the right to deny you entry. I suspect similar responses with COVID -19. Qantas has already announced that a certain point you will need to have been vaccinated before you board the plane. I understand a similar restriction is being discussed industry-wide. Again you are not forced to get the shot but they have the right to deny service.

[Emoyeni]

Id personally inject the vaccine into my eyeball if it meant I could get it now. All the hysteria about a supposedly untested vaccine when all the safety data is available completely baffles me.

[denverd0n]

Calling the vaccines "untested" is just patently absurd. Idiotic, really.

They have been extensively tested. Perhaps not quite as thoroughly tested as some other drugs that have been made available to the public, but nonetheless, they HAVE been tested!

[CarlF]

Since there is likely to be a shortage of vaccine until at least June., those of us who believe in the science behind the vaccine (and I certainly do) should be encouraging the skeptics to wait so that we can get to the head of the line sooner

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Calling the vaccines "untested" is just patently absurd. Idiotic, really.

They have been extensively tested. Perhaps not quite as thoroughly tested as some other drugs that have been made available to the public, but nonetheless, they HAVE been tested!

Yet the manufacturers still cannot say what exactly they offer/achieve any more than Boris Johnson's doctors can claim he has immunity after having suffered a severe bout of Covid-19 and recovered..
Oh, and in case you have not heard, a new strain that is claimed to be a faster spreader (more virulent?) is now hitting SE UK.
Its Good News Week..

[CarlF]

Well, at least in the US the argument is over for most who have a job.

The US government ruled yesterday that employers could make the vaccine a requirement of employment without violating the discrimination laws.

Almost all employers will do so because their health insurance companies will threaten to raise rates if they don't (Covid hospitalizations are expensive - the vaccine costs companies nothing)

As with most things, it isn't a nanny state but corporate profits that matter.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by DomPerignon

Quantas already announced they will require proof of vaccination to be allowed onboard. That is forced vaccination.

This is nO different than telling you to buckle your seatbelt. It is a requirement to fly.

[zeehag]

if new zealanders are allowed to freely return to their nation why is it a friend of mine, a kiwi, is disallowed to return to his home in new zealand..
iff allegedly 30000 folks have received test doses why then is this still considered investigational.
i will be abstaining from any future and current vaccines as i become very ill when vaccinated.. yes i had kiddo shots and was ill for each one.. flu shot caused me to miss work for 2 full weeks, worse than flu.
nope and nope . aint going there..

i am too old to experiment with my body any more and i am not working so no need to take a hit of the original form of htis idiocy. i prefer treatments , of which ther eare choices. thankfully. and these treatments are inexpensive and otc here, so what is the big deal for a virus which has already mutated past the original form into a different form, and causes 98 percent survival.
the big issue is the subjugation and restrictions coming in nwo aka great reset aka agenda 21 and 2030. no these are not theories--have been known for decades--i learned in 1950s this was coming.
ps agendas donot permit boats.. this will be interesting for watching and participating...

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by Eclectic Always

I'm not sure that I agree with that concept anymore, though I've also read (and not verified, to be pedantic) that the original "you're entitled to your own opinion" either explicitly stated or implied that one was entitled to one's informed opinion.

The quote is generally attributed to the late Senator Patrick Moynihan, one of the great statesman senators. In a debate in the Senate, he replied to an unfound statement by another senator, "Sir, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." Or words more or less to that effect.

Those of us of a certain age travelled internationally will remember the vaccine records we were required to carry. We will also remember children in braces due to polio, kids dying from measles, mumps, rubella, devastating small pox epidemics and other diseases. Public Health measures and vaccines put an end to these scourges.

Remember: Vaccines cause Adults.