'Pandemic of the unvaccinated'

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Thank you. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Seez a Cess source.. but as they say,, the ***** always floats to the top.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Talk Story

This place is becoming a cesspool.

Yes ... and I truly wonder why. What is it about CF that attracts such a high proportion of antis. Anti-science, anti-expert, anti-government ... anti.

I get that cruisers tend toward the independent side of the spectrum, but nowhere else in my sailing life, either in the real world or in other digital forums, do I run across the sheer number of these folks.

So I have to wonder... what is it about CF?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Wallaby

At the risk of being a contrarian, here are other ways to look at it.

1. Vaccination violates the natural principle of survival of the fittest and actually weakens the Human genome by allowing people without natural immunity or strong constitutions to survive and multiply. What if the poor global ranking of the US for infant mortality is the result of DNA depletion. By that argument, vaccination becomes the breeding ground for other diseases.

2. With vaccination, people have no reason to improve their health generally to stay alive. Obesity, lack of exercise, poor eating etc, will continue unabated.

1. One of the points of "civilizing", organizing into countries, medical research, electing governments and generally improving things, is to give human evolution the finger. Just about all of us will live longer, better lives thanks to this. So, just about everyone survives into adulthood and has the opportunity to reproduce... which means that for most humans, there is no longer much of a survival benefit conferred by genes.

...or, if you expand your definition of evolution to include the improvements we have created, then vaccination is just another manifestation of inherited successful mutations: intelligence, altruism and cooperation.

2. Vaccination means that I am less likely to catch COVID, or to have lasting effects from catching it... which allows me to continue to live a reasonably healthy and active life.

[friz]

Originally Posted by Group9

And, for the overweight, and smokers, and for those who refuse to exercise.
Think of the lives we could save. Who could oppose this except people who are anti-life? ( we can call them “anti-lifers”).

"Racist", gun owners, absolutely need to be added to the list.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes ... and I truly wonder why. What is it about CF that attracts such a high proportion of antis. Anti-science, anti-expert, anti-government ... anti.

I get that cruisers tend toward the independent side of the spectrum, but nowhere else in my sailing life, either in the real world or in other digital forums, do I run across the sheer number of these folks.

So I have to wonder... what is it about CF?

I had the same thought a while back when I made the mistake of reading a climate change thread on here. The only other place I've seen anything remotely similar was an aviation forum I used to be active on which had a bunch of crusty old retired pilots.


If anyone has a spare two hours this is a VERY detailed dive into how the anti-vaxx movement got started, it's uh, pretty eye-opening. Like I knew the original lancet article was bogus, but I didn't quite realise just HOW bad it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIc...nel=hbomberguy

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes ... and I truly wonder why. What is it about CF that attracts such a high proportion of antis. Anti-science, anti-expert, anti-government ... anti.

I get that cruisers tend toward the independent side of the spectrum, but nowhere else in my sailing life, either in the real world or in other digital forums, do I run across the sheer number of these folks.

So I have to wonder... what is it about CF?

Its nothing to do with CF.. its to do with some of its members who wish death upon folks who don't follow their beliefs.. A 'Throw the Christians to the Lions' mentality that seems to prevail amongst a certain type.
But hey.. humanity has ever been so and seeing as you are in agreement with one of the 'Hope you Die', I have to wonder about you and your much proclaimed 'Liberalism'..

[GordMay]

Some things we know about other vaccines & diseases.

“Association Between Vaccine Refusal and Vaccine-Preventable Diseases in the United States: A Review of Measles and Pertussis” ~ by Varun K. Phadke et al [2016]
Conclusions and Relevance
A substantial proportion of the US measles cases in the era after elimination were intentionally unvaccinated. The phenomenon of vaccine refusal was associated with an increased risk for measles among people who refuse vaccines and among fully vaccinated individuals. Although pertussis resurgence has been attributed to waning immunity and other factors, vaccine refusal was still associated with an increased risk for pertussis in some populations.
More ➥ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5007135/

"Measles Outbreak in Unvaccinated and Partially Vaccinated Children and Adults in the United States and Canada (2018-2019): A Narrative Review of Cases” ~ by Adekunle Sanyaolu et al [2019]
This review confirms that the cases of measles infection are higher among the unvaccinated population, which consists mainly of children defined as 18 years of age and below, or below 18 years of age depending on the source age classification. The majority of measles outbreaks currently in the United States and Canada are due to unvaccinated individuals who have been in contact with the viral particle.
More ➥ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6906342/

“What Would Happen If We Stopped Vaccinations?” ~ CDC [2018]
Before the middle of the last century, diseases like whooping cough, polio, measles, Haemophilus influenzae, and rubella struck hundreds of thousands of infants, children and adults in the U.S.. Thousands died every year from them. As vaccines were developed and became widely used, rates of these diseases declined until today most of them are nearly gone from our country.
More ➥ https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm


Thanks to everyone, for sharing their well-informed opinions. Very illuminating, if not particularly edifying.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its nothing to do with CF.. its to do with some of its members who wish death upon folks who don't follow their beliefs.. A 'Throw the Christians to the Lions' mentality that seems to prevail amongst a certain type.
But hey.. humanity has ever been so and seeing as you are in agreement with one of the 'Hope you Die', I have to wonder about you and your much proclaimed 'Liberalism'..

You always bring it back to politics. Why? And why do you insist on personal attacks? I guess it's because you have nothing substantive to add, so ad hominem attacks is all you can offer.

I have never said anything close to "I hope you die." I have said that there are consequences for personal choices. I also see a lot of posts encouraging people to take a vaccine that may prevent them, and others around them, from dying.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes ... and I truly wonder why. What is it about CF that attracts such a high proportion of antis. Anti-science, anti-expert, anti-government ... anti.

I get that cruisers tend toward the independent side of the spectrum, but nowhere else in my sailing life, either in the real world or in other digital forums, do I run across the sheer number of these folks.

So I have to wonder... what is it about CF?

I don't know Mike. The opinions I see being expressed here, and elsewhere (anti Vaccine, etc), informs me that there are a whole lot of people in the world with some loose screws. When I read this stuff I am truly saddened at the state of the human race. I find myself just shaking my head.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I don't know Mike. The opinions I see being expressed here, and elsewhere (anti Vaccine, etc), informs me that there are a whole lot of people in the world with some loose screws. When I read this stuff I am truly saddened at the state of the human race. I find myself just shaking my head.

Oh, I agree. But why do they concentrate here? Maybe I'm just lucky, but no where else in my real, or digital worlds do I encounter the sheer volume of these folks as I do here.

Is there something special about CF? Or maybe I need to get out more often .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You always bring it back to politics. Why? And why do you insist on personal attacks? I guess it's because you have nothing substantive to add, so ad hominem attacks is all you can offer.

I have never said anything close to "I hope you die." I have said that there are consequences for personal choices. I also see a lot of posts encouraging people to take a vaccine that may prevent them, and others around them, from dying.

Not bringing anything back to politics, your the one who repeatedly claims liberal views.. also I have never, nor am I now saying you have wished someone's death.. however you if do agree with people who have.. as I said, it makes one wonder if stronger sentiments hide behind your keyboard.
As for personal attacks [1] ad hominem[1].. if you can't take the heat stay outa the kitchen..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its nothing to do with CF.. its to do with some of its members who wish death upon folks who don't follow their beliefs.

... said the guy with 27000 posts. oops 27001.

There was a fresh infestation of "anti's" here on CF at the beginning of the pandemic. Sort of like ants looking to found a new colony... most of them found the soil tough and moved on. But CF has always had representatives of different stripes, especially of the deep polarization of the US political landscape, so it has never been hard in the last few years to get a bunfight rolling.

One thing we're not short of, given the cruising demographic, is older "characters" who sometimes mistake their own obstinacy and cantankerousness for wisdom. Or who simply troll cos they're bored.

[Dove1955]

Please keep this site related to sailing topics only

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dove1955

Please keep this site related to sailing topics only

I agree completely, however there is a certain 'Hard Core' who insist on dragging this pony and other none sail related topics into the boatyard time and time again..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

One thing we're not short of, given the cruising demographic, is older "characters" who sometimes mistake their own obstinacy and cantankerousness for wisdom. Or who simply troll cos they're bored.

I guess this post means you consider yourself wise.. thus able to judge who may not be..