Northern Europe during Pandemic -- Summers 2020 & 2021 & onwards

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by skipmac

US resident and citizen, would leave probably from Boston.

Certainly now and for the next month or so travel to Europe is 100% no go at least as a tourist. I'm just wondering if things will be better by July.

Was forced to cancel trips last year with no redunds, the only option was rebooking for this year. At this point I'm ready to give up the deposits to the tune of a couple of boat bucks. Unless there is a MAJOR change in EU I'm just not feeling good about travel this year.

I would think the Baltic will be OK this summer -- getting back to the original topic of this thread. Crossing borders by pleasure boat generally unrestricted. Case numbers reasonable everywhere except Estonia and vaccination going better than the EU average everywhere except Latvia.

From late June 2020 cruising in the Baltic was completely normal and I expect it will be the same this year.

Getting INTO Europe to do that, however, is another question. At the moment it's not easy to do, but the situation is fluid and I think it is likely that restrictions will be eased before summer. Europe needs vaccinated American tourists and would be completely crazy not to allow them in.

Southern Europe already making such plans: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/e...rt-antibodies/


Note that Iceland is fully open to vaccinated travelers:


https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaet...M-1-APRIL-2021

[boatman61]

Britons could face a £5,000 fine if they leave the UK without a reasonable excuse under new coronavirus rules coming into force next week.

The legislation for restrictions over the coming months, as the Government sets out its road map for coming out of lockdown, was published on Monday.

The new laws come into force on March 29.

International travel is already banned under most circumstances in the current lockdown, but according to the new laws non-essential foreign travel will be banned until June 30.

[jon villa]

Hi. I'll be delivering my boat from Greece to Ireland this summer from mid May on. Does anybody know what restrictions will find in Italy Spain and Portugal while transiting?



Jon Villa

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Pardon me if this has been addressed recently in this thread but have been out of touch for a while and have not been following closely.

We had a trip to France booked last year that we had to cancel due to Covid. Could only get credit for a big piece of it (le Boat for a two week canal trip, no refunds, bah humbug) so had to rebook for this coming July.

The way things are going I'm not feeling too optimistic that travel to France in July is going to be happening.

Anyone have any opinions, guesses or wild speculation?

hey skipmac,

i would put a giant X on France this year, all year long.

we do not have vaccines from what i can tell, and the EU has definitely fudged the confidence folks kind-of had in the AstraZ as of late... (oh to be in the UK where the BBC has guided people to the other side of this with a fair amount of humanity!!!)

so yes, i'm here, in lockdown... double masking it. my observations: so many just don't wear the mask properly (nose-outside style, under-the-chin style, hanging--from-one-ear style, not-at-all style), even in crowded areas like fresh vegetable markets, grocery stores, inside the trains. yesterday, i saw one on the floor of the metro with blood all over it.

inter-regional travel is forbidden in some hotspot areas. i had a valid excuse (the excuses are very limited) to travel from the coast to the capital yesterday, only to find a really, really, really sick guy near me on the train

so on one hand, you have the individualists (a much-prided attribute here) and those-who-feel-young-n-strong and those who are simply fed-up (so many have burnout)... and on the other, those who will report someone for eating lunch on the train (for taking the mask off to eat. i witnessed this recently too). and, i tell you, it is scary when the fear spurs McCarthyism-type reactions. witnessing it, you realise just how potent Fear is, as a societal force

and yes, we are tied down, locked in with super stringent rules. kids go to school alternating days. schools may shut down... easter may not happen. and, in contrast to the BBC and as though to enforce these strident rules, there are those news-sensation moments (broadcasted on the radio) telling of the consequences when someone getting a fine for this or that, or jailed for whatever. so yes, my take is that, in a lot of ways, the spirit here is turning into something similar to a game of cat-n-mouse

and from what i see, there is not much by way of "let's-thru-this-together" momentum. and having lived here as long as i have, i can easily state that i'd be very surprised to see folks being able to pull together for the collective good, not yet anyway.

and yes, admittedly, i'm feeling fed-up. sorry for the rant.

wolgal

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by skipmac

US resident and citizen, would leave probably from Boston.

Certainly now and for the next month or so travel to Europe is 100% no go at least as a tourist. I'm just wondering if things will be better by July.

Was forced to cancel trips last year with no redunds, the only option was rebooking for this year. At this point I'm ready to give up the deposits to the tune of a couple of boat bucks. Unless there is a MAJOR change in EU I'm just not feeling good about travel this year.

Okay, US resident and citizen. Hence precluded from entry to the EU except for truly essential purposes. Recreational boating is about as nonessential as a purpose there could be.

The USA does not permit EU residents to enter the USA, and likewise the EU will not let Americans to enter. Until reciprocity is agreed to the pond is a barrier. The conditions in the USA by July will likely to have improved considerably because of providing 2.5 million vaccinations per day. Albeit there is a sizeable percentage of the USA population that are disinclined to be vaccinated. [There be a huge disparity as to willingness to be vaccinated split upon political lines, , a rabbit hole subject not desiring to go down in this posting]. So there are two large factors that will lay heavy as to mitigating the pandemic and until the pandemic is tamed travel restrictions will continue to be imposed. The factors are, in the USA, an inadequate percentage of persons willing towards becoming vaccinated and in Europe an inadequate supply of vaccines. In both regions there will be a sizeable percentage of the population that will remain at risk and be more contagious than if they were vaccinated. The pandemic has yet a longways to run and the virus sets the timetable when its vector [humans] are unable to resolve their capacity to be infected.

July 2022 is a viable target for your pleasure trip. Summer 2021, just not going to happen way too soon for this issue to be resolved. There be many wonderful places to recreate in the USA, France isn't going anywhere, another time.

Now all bets are off if an even more contagious or virulent variant spreads such that the vaccines become less effective and / or natural immunity from having previously had the disease is also ineffective. The Brazilian P-1 variant certainly has been cause for concern as many Brazilians are being infected yet again, the immunity they obtained by the original wildtype is not proving resilient to protection from the variant, hence yet another massive wave of hospitalizations and deaths in a population that was thought to have perhaps achieved herd immunity from the first wave.

It ain't over until it is over and in baseball terms we are probably entering the fifth inning and this one may very well be headed into extra innings.

All the best.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by jon villa

Hi. I'll be delivering my boat from Greece to Ireland this summer from mid May on. Does anybody know what restrictions will find in Italy Spain and Portugal while transiting?



Jon Villa

We'll at the moment Portugal is closed till 15th April and if things continue as they are in Europe I can see that being extended.. They opened up for Christmas/New Year and what had been just under 2000 deaths till then shot up and now stands at 16780 deaths.

You do have the option of doing it non-stop if it's urgent.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by jon villa

Hi. I'll be delivering my boat from Greece to Ireland this summer from mid May on. Does anybody know what restrictions will find in Italy Spain and Portugal while transiting?



Jon Villa

Italy, Spain and Portugal are all in stages of lockdown. Covid being rampant, vaccinations less available.

There are many restrictions now, don't see things changing substantially for the better by mid-May, too soon. The regulations are very fluid, changing all the time; one can not make plans with any chance of reliability.

Recommend delaying your voyage to much later in the year, late Fall perhaps possible, perhaps not possible, albeit by then the weather would not be kind.

Pandemic and travel, two words that are not compatible.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

hey skipmac,

i would put a giant X on France this year, all year long.

we do not have vaccines from what i can tell, and the EU has definitely fudged the confidence folks kind-of had in the AstraZ as of late... (oh to be in the UK where the BBC has guided people to the other side of this with a fair amount of humanity!!!)

so yes, i'm here, in lockdown... double masking it. my observations: so many just don't wear the mask properly (nose-outside style, under-the-chin style, hanging--from-one-ear style, not-at-all style), even in crowded areas like fresh vegetable markets, grocery stores, inside the trains. yesterday, i saw one on the floor of the metro with blood all over it.

inter-regional travel is forbidden in some hotspot areas. i had a valid excuse (the excuses are very limited) to travel from the coast to the capital yesterday, only to find a really, really, really sick guy near me on the train

so on one hand, you have the individualists (a much-prided attribute here) and those-who-feel-young-n-strong and those who are simply fed-up (so many have burnout)... and on the other, those who will report someone for eating lunch on the train (for taking the mask off to eat. i witnessed this recently too). and, i tell you, it is scary when the fear spurs McCarthyism-type reactions. witnessing it, you realise just how potent Fear is, as a societal force

and yes, we are tied down, locked in with super stringent rules. kids go to school alternating days. schools may shut down... easter may not happen. and, in contrast to the BBC and as though to enforce these strident rules, there are those news-sensation moments (broadcasted on the radio) telling of the consequences when someone getting a fine for this or that, or jailed for whatever. so yes, my take is that, in a lot of ways, the spirit here is turning into something similar to a game of cat-n-mouse

and from what i see, there is not much by way of "let's-thru-this-together" momentum. and having lived here as long as i have, i can easily state that i'd be very surprised to see folks being able to pull together for the collective good, not yet anyway.

and yes, admittedly, i'm feeling fed-up. sorry for the rant.

wolgal

Thanks. I have personally already put the big X (or in pirate terms, the black spot) on Europe in general and certainly France for tourism this summer but I'm just hoping it will still be more or less official in July so I'll have justification to demand a refund from le Boat. I understand their business is probably seriously hurting but don't want to be the one to subsidize them.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Thanks. I have personally already put the big X (or in pirate terms, the black spot) on Europe in general and certainly France for tourism this summer but I'm just hoping it will still be more or less official in July so I'll have justification to demand a refund from le Boat. I understand their business is probably seriously hurting but don't want to be the one to subsidize them.

If there are travel restrictions inhibiting travel then you should be able to claim force majeure on the contract in which case it becomes a negotiable relationship wherein once the situation avails the parties to the contract to be able to perform their respective parts then the contract can proceed. So I would expect that they would agree to an alternative date in the future for your charter, if you are precluded from arrival. A return of your deposit, well that may be something they could consider but I suspect they will more likely just agree to reschedule. Much depends on their liquidity status and the terms of the contract and whether the deposit funds were being held in escrow to mutual favor, or the funds were put into their working capital and not restricted as to their usage of your advance payment. When one is dealing with travel that involves advance deposits, it is advantageous that such funds be placed in an escrow fund, and / or there is the opportunity to utilize one's credit cards to provide such, in which case one can typically have the credit card company reverse the charge back to the vendor if they don't fulfill their end of the bargain. Albeit in this instance, it more your inability to fulfill the charter obligation so a reversal of the credit card charge is unlikely. All too often travelers do not insist on deposits being put into escrow and the travelers end up being shorted when the travel agency / service firm defaults. Caveat emptor.

All the best.

[Montanan]

Britain is planning booster COVID-19 vaccines for over 70 year olds from September to protect them from new virus variants as the government drives ahead with its vaccine rollout, The Telegraph reported on Friday, citing the vaccine deployment minister. The booster COVID-19 vaccine will be given to those aged over 70 as well as frontline NHS and social care workers,

"The most likely date will be September. Jonathan Van-Tam (the deputy chief medical officer) thinks that if we are going to see a requirement for a booster jab to protect the most vulnerable, (it) would be around September," British Vaccine Deployment Minister Nadhim Zahawi told the paper

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ines-september.

[Montanan]

Denmark, long an advocate of a cautious approach to Covid, is ready to take a "calculated risk" and unlock quickly in the spring after scientists said the risk of a third wave is low.

Last week, nine of the country's 10 political parties voted to back a wide-ranging plan that would see the majority of restrictions on normal life removed by the end of May, coinciding with vaccines having been offered to all over-50s.

That is in contrast to Britain, which should reach the same vaccines landmark by mid-April but will not fully remove restrictions until late June, when the entire adult population will have been offered a first dose.

Starting on April 6 with the reopening of hairdressers, restrictions in Denmark will be eased every two weeks, with larger shopping centres allowed to open from April 21 and indoor dining returning from May 6.

Danish officials are aware that the unlocking is likely to lead to an increase in Covid infections and hospitalisations but believe the problem is manageable.

[Montanan]

Precautions aimed at tamping down the coronavirus helped nearly eradicate last year’s flu season — but that could backfire by making it harder to develop effective vaccines for next winter’s flu.

The hospitalization rate for the 2020-21 flu season was just 0.7 per 100,000 people, the lowest it’s been since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began collecting such data in 2005. Measures such as social distancing, wearing masks and staying indoors likely helped hold pediatric flu deaths to just one last flu season, compared to 196 in the 2019-20 season.

Public health experts are relieved that the United States avoided a “twindemic” of a strong flu season amid a spiraling Covid-19 outbreak. But the low levels of flu have left experts with a much smaller pool of data used for predicting which flu strains will predominate next winter — raising the odds that the 2021-22 flu vaccine will be less effective than normal.

Once doors start opening again and people venture out without taking a year’s worth of Covid-19 precautions, it’s possible there could be new strains of the flu circulating that scientists didn't anticipate, said Cody Meissner, an infectious disease specialist and pediatrician at Tufts Children’s Hospital who also serves on the FDA vaccine advisory panel. Without a strong enough vaccine, the pandemic-weary country could experience a severe flu season just as it emerges from fighting the coronavirus.

“We may have a combination of low public health measures at the population level with a low effectiveness vaccine. And then so you might have a raging flu season next year,”

[jon villa]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Italy, Spain and Portugal are all in stages of lockdown. Covid being rampant, vaccinations less available.

There are many restrictions now, don't see things changing substantially for the better by mid-May, too soon. The regulations are very fluid, changing all the time; one can not make plans with any chance of reliability.

Recommend delaying your voyage to much later in the year, late Fall perhaps possible, perhaps not possible, albeit by then the weather would not be kind.

Pandemic and travel, two words that are not compatible.

I do have the option and the crew to do it non stop weather permitting, one more reason to choose the time of the year. However chances are I will have to shelter somewhere along the way, and I don't know what to expect when that happens. I don't have the option to postpone the trip as I'll be homeless without the boat.
Thanks for your replies Boatman and Montanan

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Denmark, long an advocate of a cautious approach to Covid, is ready to take a "calculated risk" and unlock quickly in the spring after scientists said the risk of a third wave is low.

Last week, nine of the country's 10 political parties voted to back a wide-ranging plan that would see the majority of restrictions on normal life removed by the end of May, coinciding with vaccines having been offered to all over-50s.

That is in contrast to Britain, which should reach the same vaccines landmark by mid-April but will not fully remove restrictions until late June, when the entire adult population will have been offered a first dose.

Starting on April 6 with the reopening of hairdressers, restrictions in Denmark will be eased every two weeks, with larger shopping centres allowed to open from April 21 and indoor dining returning from May 6.

Danish officials are aware that the unlocking is likely to lead to an increase in Covid infections and hospitalisations but believe the problem is manageable.

Thank God. My boat is in Denmark, and I haven't been able to get to her in months. I hadn't heard this; thanks for posting.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Thank God. My boat is in Denmark, and I haven't been able to get to her in months. I hadn't heard this; thanks for posting.

Glad you can look forward to reuniting in the not too distant future.

All the best,

Dan

P.S. Dockhead I just went back and reread your original post that began this thread. What a year.