Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

What does TMM stand for?

Per their copyright: Tortola Marine Management

[docwood]

Sounds like few people on here have more knowlede than me. Not hard..lol. May I add though that I have looked at a few of the ownership programs and I believe there is a clause , not eve n well hidden that allows them to stop payment during a force majeuer. .You may have the option of pulling he boat out of the program as others have suggested I for one am hoping they survive as I have an USVI bareboat scheduled with them in April and a week voucher for another sail. Figured they were hurting for cash as the vouchers were at 50% (raising cash) They also opened a Key West site Fall od 2020 to try and boost domestic charters during the epidemic I hear some negatives about DYC but have worked with Navtours prior to their joining DYC and no big issues yet. I hope that trend continues and I get to sail and they resume payments to owners.

[docwood]

Sounds like few people on here have more knowledge than me. Not hard..lol. May I add though that I have looked at a few of the ownership programs and I believe there is a clause , not eve n well hidden that allows them to stop payment during a force majeuer. .You may have the option of pulling he boat out of the program as others have suggested I for one am hoping they survive as I have an USVI bareboat scheduled with them in April and a week voucher for another sail. Figured they were hurting for cash as the vouchers were at 50% (raising cash) They also opened a Key West site Fall od 2020 to try and boost domestic charters during the epidemic I hear some negatives about DYC but have worked with Navtours prior to their joining DYC and no big issues yet. I hope that trend continues and I get to sail and they resume payments to owners.

[Captain Bligh]

Originally Posted by mudita

we are about to join the dream partnership program in February. yes, it is risky so I am looking for any advice, evidence that could give me peace of mind to proceed or delay the investment. Going through the thread I saw certain positive developments as well as worrying ones. To me it all comes down to 2 things: 1. how 2021 charter season is going to look like, 2. financial stability of the Dream, which depends on the agreement between the DYC and the banks provide financing. As for the charter season there are many reports and assumptions :-) but I have zero knowledge on the financial stability of DYC. do you have any idea how we can get some information about it? thx endre

Are you sure that is a good idea? Cant you find anything better to invest your money in right now? Moving forward i see a lot of instability. It's possible there may be many late model charter boats for sale at below market values. Just due to the instability an unknowns of the market, I would hold off at least a year or so.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by Captain Bligh

Are you sure that is a good idea? Cant you find anything better to invest your money in right now? Moving forward i see a lot of instability. It's possible there may be many late model charter boats for sale at below market values. Just due to the instability an unknowns of the market, I would hold off at least a year or so.

The questioner hasnt been seen since so perhaps doesnt like the answers. After all buying a boat is mainly an emotional decision as we all know.

If you do want to put your money where your mouth is on a post covid recovery there are far better ways than buying a charter boat.

Buy some stocks in airlines or cruise liner operators for starters. Then use the profit (if you are right) to buy that boat outright.

[mtriva]

Hi guys, any update on the payments? I was considering to enter in the program with DYC too and would love to know if they reactivated the payments.

[Flomalo]

Hello,

I would like to inform you of financial difficulties with Dream Yacht Charter.

We own a boat with a Dream Easy construct.
Three months ago, Dream suggested that we anticipate the buyout of the boat by paying 25% of its residual value.

We had decided to accept this proposal and transferred the money to Dream Yacht almost 2 months ago.
We did not have a sales document.
We still have not received the official transfer of ownership documents for the boat.
The money has been collected but we are still not officially the owner of the boat.
Dream Yacht gives us reassuring information by explaining to us that it is the fault of the (French) authorities who are not doing their job.
Being very worried about the situation, we contacted the administrative authorities and made some very worrying discoveries: There is no transfer file in progress for our boat. Our boat is owned by a bank and Dream is the tenant.
We discovered that the boat registration number that appears on our Dream Easy contract does not match the name indicated on this contract.
The situation is serious and we have the impression that we are living a nightmare to discover the reality: we have paid 55% of the price of a boat to Dream Yatch which they do not own and therefore the name is wrong.

On a trip to Saint-Martin last month, we learned on site that the suppliers had closed Dream Yacht's accounts and required cash payments to provide equipment. Subcontractors are no longer paid, etc ...
The situation therefore seems very critical.
Are they going to go bankrupt?

Can other owners testify about their situation?

Thank you

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by Flomalo

Hello,

There is no transfer file in progress for our boat.
The situation is serious and we have the impression that we are living a nightmare to discover the reality: we have paid 55% of the price of a boat to Dream Yatch which they do not own and therefore the name is wrong.

On a trip to Saint-Martin last month, we learned on site that the suppliers had closed Dream Yacht's accounts and required cash payments to provide equipment. Subcontractors are no longer paid, etc ...
The situation therefore seems very critical.
Are they going to go bankrupt?

Thank you

Scary stuff, I’m sorry for your situation, I hope it works out but you probably need to mentally prepare yourself for the worst.

I asked some very direct questions to the DYC folks prior to any of this stuff and their answer was essentially “yes it’s a guarantee as long as business proceeds normally”. There is absolutely a risk of total loss (other than the time you did get to use on the boat). That being said cross your fingers that life returns to normal by 2022 and DYC is still afloat.

[Paul L]

I just walked the Dream Yacht dock in Langkawi, Malaysia. I'd say close to half the charter boats there have a small reef growing on the hull. Not going to see any charters in that condition. The other half look ready to go. The country is pretty shutdown with a Movement Control Order so no customers anyway.

[geoffkimblin]

I had been reading this thread with interest since I have been part of Dream’s owners’ programme for the last 5 years and this has just come to an end. I previously took part in a similar programme with Sunsail for the preceding 5 years.

I live in the UK and at the end of the my programme with Sunsail, decided not to renew because at that time they were rationalising (their word) but this had the effect of significantly reducing the number of bases that they operated out of and therefore a significant reduction in choice of chartering areas for me.

I did not know Dream well at that time, but together with a friend we negotiated an ownership arrangement with them for the next 5 years which had the following significant features:-

We paid upfront 65% of what Dream said is the “selling price” for a 37ft 2015 Bavaria complete with all necessary equipment;
We could have use of the yacht or similar from any of their bases throughout the world for 6 weeks which could be reserved in advance and 6 at weeks short notice. The number of reservable weeks was reduced by half if high season was required.
This use would be on boats up to and including 41ft and would not be limited to boats similar in size to our 37ft boat;
There would be no income to us from Dream in respect of their chartering out of the yacht;
At the end of the contract arrangement we had the choice of assuming ownership of the Bavaria 37 or a payment of 40% of the original “selling price”;
Importantly we agreed with Dream that the contract documents were to be drawn in the UK and the agreement was subject to UK law;

We chose to exercise the 40% cashback option and have recently received that payment. I have to admit to some nervousness that this payment might have been difficult to collect with the impact that COVID would have had on Dream’s financial position, but pay up they did (although a few weeks late).

Having read the thread on this subject it is clear that some contributors are not too happy, but I thought some others may be interested in our experience which largely has been very good. We were able to negotiate what I think was a good arrangement and Dream have discharged all their responsibilities under this, the boats that we have chartered (with only one exception) have been modern, well equipped and have always worked well. Their booking staff have been exceptional in helping us find available boats in various places and base staff have been experienced, flexible and helpful. We have been able to sail in several faraway places that we could only have dreamt about if we had owned a boat. All of this at a cost that is well below that of owning a similar boat or by taking individual charters.

I would have been happy to re-contract with them but have decided that I would put the money required to another use.

[AthenaB]

Good post, geoffkimblin, it’s pleasing to hear your experiences have been so positive: an encouragement to all us owners and those considering charter programmes. We all want DYC and the other charter companies to come through this difficult time well, for the sake of their staff, as well as all our sailing interests.

As I mentioned in a previous post (see above) we too have been happy with DYC service to date and, as owners, received the following positive communication from Loic Bonnet recently:


At the end of this challenging year, I wish you all the best for 2021 in the name of the entire DYC team. May you enjoy good health, happy moments with your dear ones and many sunny days at sea on DYC boats.
In this complicated past year, we have invested significant efforts to ensure you are able to enjoy your sailing holidays by:

Moving boats to more accessible bases, more than 170 from Greece/Croatia to France/Italy, and over 70 boats from south Caribbean to Guadeloupe, Antigua, the USVI or the Bahamas.
Opening new bases that offer you greater choice of sailing areas under the travel rules that are in place in your respective countries of residence:
La Spezia in Italy
St Thomas in the USVI
Key West in Florida
Marsh Harbour – open from February 1st 2021- in the Bahamas Tenerife in the Canary islands
Stavanger in Norway.

In 2021 more than ever we want the owner care to be in the heart of our strategy. Therefore I'm pleased to announce the appointment of Kresimir Klaric to the position of Global Owner Care Manager. ManyofyoumetKresimirduringownermeetingsheldinCroat iawhilehewasmanaging thatterritory. Weareconfidentthatbythisdecisionwewillachieveimpro vementandpersonaltouch to the owner care process in DYC.
We have a clear vision of how the owner care communication and process will function in the future and a clear path to reach that goal.
The main objectives of the DYC owner care management are:
Establishing and maintaining regular communication to you, our owners, which will include:
Quarterly maintenance statements for all boats
Relevant information about your boat, promotions of exclusive deals available only for DYC owners and other DYC news
Dedicated personal contact and assistance to each owner for any issues with your boat Development of a dedicated on line area where all relevant information for each owner will be available under individual login
Development of a DYC loyalty programme
Organisation of yearly owner meetings and other owner events aimed at building the owner community and our relationship

Krešimir was kind enough to give us an hour of his time on Skype recently and we have received our maintenance log for the 2019/20 season. Whilst recognizing some challenges and mistakes in the past, KK was very reassuring about the future.

Now... all we need is to do is figure out a way to get to our boat!

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by AthenaB

Good post, geoffkimblin, it’s pleasing to hear your experiences have been so positive: an encouragement to all us owners and those considering charter programmes. We all want DYC and the other charter companies to come through this difficult time well, for the sake of their staff, as well as all our sailing interests.

As I mentioned in a previous post (see above) we too have been happy with DYC service to date and, as owners, received the following positive communication from Loic Bonnet recently:


At the end of this challenging year, I wish you all the best for 2021 in the name of the entire DYC team. May you enjoy good health, happy moments with your dear ones and many sunny days at sea on DYC boats.
In this complicated past year, we have invested significant efforts to ensure you are able to enjoy your sailing holidays by:

Moving boats to more accessible bases, more than 170 from Greece/Croatia to France/Italy, and over 70 boats from south Caribbean to Guadeloupe, Antigua, the USVI or the Bahamas.
Opening new bases that offer you greater choice of sailing areas under the travel rules that are in place in your respective countries of residence:
La Spezia in Italy
St Thomas in the USVI
Key West in Florida
Marsh Harbour – open from February 1st 2021- in the Bahamas Tenerife in the Canary islands
Stavanger in Norway.

In 2021 more than ever we want the owner care to be in the heart of our strategy. Therefore I'm pleased to announce the appointment of Kresimir Klaric to the position of Global Owner Care Manager. ManyofyoumetKresimirduringownermeetingsheldinCroat iawhilehewasmanaging thatterritory. Weareconfidentthatbythisdecisionwewillachieveimpro vementandpersonaltouch to the owner care process in DYC.
We have a clear vision of how the owner care communication and process will function in the future and a clear path to reach that goal.
The main objectives of the DYC owner care management are:
Establishing and maintaining regular communication to you, our owners, which will include:
Quarterly maintenance statements for all boats
Relevant information about your boat, promotions of exclusive deals available only for DYC owners and other DYC news
Dedicated personal contact and assistance to each owner for any issues with your boat Development of a dedicated on line area where all relevant information for each owner will be available under individual login
Development of a DYC loyalty programme
Organisation of yearly owner meetings and other owner events aimed at building the owner community and our relationship

Krešimir was kind enough to give us an hour of his time on Skype recently and we have received our maintenance log for the 2019/20 season. Whilst recognizing some challenges and mistakes in the past, KK was very reassuring about the future.

Now... all we need is to do is figure out a way to get to our boat!

Originally Posted by AthenaB

Good post, geoffkimblin, it’s pleasing to hear your experiences have been so positive: an encouragement to all us owners and those considering charter programmes. We all want DYC and the other charter companies to come through this difficult time well, for the sake of their staff, as well as all our sailing interests.

As I mentioned in a previous post (see above) we too have been happy with DYC service to date and, as owners, received the following positive communication from Loic Bonnet recently:





At the end of this challenging year, I wish you all the best for 2021 in the name of the entire DYC team. May you enjoy good health, happy moments with your dear ones and many sunny days at sea on DYC boats.
In this complicated past year, we have invested significant efforts to ensure you are able to enjoy your sailing holidays by:

Moving boats to more accessible bases, more than 170 from Greece/Croatia to France/Italy, and over 70 boats from south Caribbean to Guadeloupe, Antigua, the USVI or the Bahamas.
Opening new bases that offer you greater choice of sailing areas under the travel rules that are in place in your respective countries of residence:
La Spezia in Italy
St Thomas in the USVI
Key West in Florida
Marsh Harbour – open from February 1st 2021- in the Bahamas Tenerife in the Canary islands
Stavanger in Norway.

In 2021 more than ever we want the owner care to be in the heart of our strategy. Therefore I'm pleased to announce the appointment of Kresimir Klaric to the position of Global Owner Care Manager. ManyofyoumetKresimirduringownermeetingsheldinCroat iawhilehewasmanaging thatterritory. Weareconfidentthatbythisdecisionwewillachieveimpro vementandpersonaltouch to the owner care process in DYC.
We have a clear vision of how the owner care communication and process will function in the future and a clear path to reach that goal.
The main objectives of the DYC owner care management are:
Establishing and maintaining regular communication to you, our owners, which will include:
Quarterly maintenance statements for all boats
Relevant information about your boat, promotions of exclusive deals available only for DYC owners and other DYC news
Dedicated personal contact and assistance to each owner for any issues with your boat Development of a dedicated on line area where all relevant information for each owner will be available under individual login
Development of a DYC loyalty programme
Organisation of yearly owner meetings and other owner events aimed at building the owner community and our relationship

Krešimir was kind enough to give us an hour of his time on Skype recently and we have received our maintenance log for the 2019/20 season. Whilst recognizing some challenges and mistakes in the past, KK was very reassuring about the future.

Now... all we need is to do is figure out a way to get to our boat!

well that sounds all like nice marketing, the reality with DYC is different.
It looks like DYC is close to his end......

I was a potential buyer of Mahe 36 that was moved during my buying process from Guadelope to Nassau.

As I cannot get there I hired a well known, trustworthy and very expereinced surveyor (don't want to reveil his name due to potential troubles he could get but the references I got were outstanding). He was yesterday at the DYC base in Nassau and his key findings not only about the cat are shocking:
- local DYC accounts are closed, only cash for labour&parts

- there is a mad rush of owners pulling their boats out of the program, local surveyors are extremly busy to document boats in Lawsuits with DYC and surveying boats for sale hired by potential customers that cannot enter the Bahamas (like me)

- boats for sale with DYC were parted out by transfering equipment and parts to boats still in charter, expect to save money on maintenance....just when he was survying the Mahe the boat next to it good parts were taken off by DYC staff and replaced with worn and broken parts. Also matches the Mahe, half of the equipment of its list was missing (only 1 of 3 service batteries fitted, all cusions from cockpit and helm missing, salon had 3 of 7 cusions, they did not matching in colour and shape . The provided video of the Mahe (6 weeks old) showed all cushions and a shiny fridge in good condition. surveyor found a hardly working piece of totally rusted and corroded fridge that could never get in 6 weels in the condition the surveyor foundd it. Some mounting holes didn''t fit either...so this was transffered from another boat too.
- a new owner of a DYC boat during handover on the next pier shouting at DYC staff that more then half of the equipment list is missing he paid for and he doesn't accept this. Staff said that is what he gets, if he is not happy go to court.

- the provided maintenance log (after several escalations) for the Mahe I was interested in was a farytale and didn't match

a) the real jobs done eg oil was changed 50h ago due to log but the black sludge that hang on the dipstick was definitly 300-400h old
b) the damages recorded were small and minor but Mahe had 99% likely a significant huricane damage (1000% he can only say after a haul out he decided not to as waist of money) on the stern of both hulls. Fitting to that both engines had a very shiny newish paintjob not fitting to the rest of the boat, most likely they were submerged then taken out, cleaned and patched up and put back in. nothing is in the log about that, neither a paintjob or a pull out of the engine. pushpits were ripped out, stations and lifelines lying flat on deck, nothing in the log about that. But the video of Mahe showed them nicely fitted.

- surveyor advised me if I wanna proceed that I should get a local attornee which provides payment in exchange for boat papers. he is aware of 2 cases were new owners fully paid but didn't receive their papers till today (8 weeks ago!). DYC said local authorities are slow but a check reveiled they have no glue about the case and the cat belongs to a bank and DYC is the tendant. right several posts before a similar case in this thread.



So this all shows a company in deep deep Sh.... at the end of their life and performing illegal actions to safe money and lying to owners.
Needles to say I don't procceed with this Mahe.

[Barra]

^^^^

thanks Capn. You might just have saved someone from a financial disaster with this report.

It amazes me how many people are so naive on basic legalities of boat ownership and transfer. Its not like buying a car or a house in most countries at least.

If you own your boat you would of course be moving from DYC if at all possible. If all you own are 5 years of prepaid holidays then I am afraid you will be in line with the creditors but behind the banks who have title to the boats.

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by Tropiclvr

As a current owner in the DYC program, I can tell you that not all contracts must be litigated in France. Our contract specifically states that any legal proceedings must take place in Maryland, as that is where they’re based in the states. However, I can also say that I spoke to an attorney, who says he is currently representing several owners with many various issues against DYC. He also said that most of the suits are for problems that people were having prior to the whole pandemic. Did not speak very optimistically about obtaining any kind of settlement from the company, although he was more than happy to take us on as a new client, for a mere $5000 retainer! Seems like throwing even more money into the wind. I’m not sure why there aren’t more owners or past owners speaking up about their issues with this company!

OH THANK YOU ... we have a big with DYC that is retaining the balance of the sale of our catamaran. Can you lead us to that Maryland Lawyer.
Since one month, we are looking for a lawyer KNOWING that business and DYC.

Even if we don't get more that expected, we will have somebody pushing to solve. We plan to make a seizure of the boat, so the new owner will also react and push on them.
Your help will be greatly welcomed.

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

So this all shows a company in deep deep Sh.... at the end of their life and performing illegal actions to safe money and lying to owners.
Needles to say I don't procceed with this Mahe.

Thank you. We had our Lucia in Nassau with DYC and glad (some sort of...) to learn from others what we experiment ourselves.



DYC was financing our boat and we made a contract for them to sell it and reimburse our part. But now the boat is sold, chartered in Key West and we did not get our money.
Do you know a Maryland lawyer that know DYC and had some lawsuits with them ?
(better to stay out of this business)