21-07-2020, 17:28
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#226
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NC
Boat: Dehler 36 (sold)
Posts: 80
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep
Well said, Peter. There can be no financial justification for a boat, in or out of a program. If it happens to work out financially, then great. If not. Well, that big $$ meal at a steak house wasn't a great investment either. Our boat is our escape. When I set foot on the pier on Friday, I'm on vacation. What's that worth?
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There's always justification for a boat if you spend ample time on it not 6-8 weeks annually like some of the posters here.
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21-07-2020, 22:18
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#227
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Boat: CL52
Posts: 187
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleplay
There's always justification for a boat if you spend ample time on it not 6-8 weeks annually like some of the posters here.
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Some people only have 6 or 8 weeks. As someone with a full time job, I’m not sure I spend 6 weeks on my boat annually either.
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25-09-2020, 08:36
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#228
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tampa Bay
Boat: 1998 Catalina 320
Posts: 490
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
So Dream Yacht Charter said at the start of covid that it had enough money to last through September as it suspended promised monthly payments to the boat owners who supply the yachts for chartering.
Well, it's now the end of September. And, from the looks of things, only a few of its 60-some locations are operating. Are the payments resuming to the boat owners? What's happening with the business?
I ask this as someone who is still interested in future Caribbean chartering, but lost a chunk of change to Dream Yacht on a Grenada cruise aborted by covid. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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02-11-2020, 07:22
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#229
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 3
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
We have been watching this thread with interest. I am a DreamEasy DYC owner in the Med. like many or all of the DYC owners, we received an email giving us 3 options, 1 : to pay up our balloon payment, receive full title, leave the scheme, take ownership and responsibility for the boat immediately, 2 : pay the balloon payment, receive full title but remain in the scheme, so no costs or income but continue to use our worldwide sailing weeks until we receive the boat as planned in 2 years time or 3 : pay the balloon payment, receive full title, no income or outgoings, but unlimited weeks on our own boat at its home base immediately.
We assumed this was a revenue raising exercise for DYC and were inclined to go for Op 2 as we have been enjoying plenty or weeks’ sailing in many wonderful exotic locations but are not yet in a position to shoulder the costs of storage and maintenance or full yacht ownership and use yet, or stop exotic sailing trips. We were concerned that we would relinquish any leverage over the handover condition ir the yacht though.
In the event, we deliberated for a few weeks before contacting DYC with our proposal but when we did so were told that they now had raised sufficient funds to see them through and were no longer offering these 3 options. So far, we have not taken any further action but are continuing to discuss.
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02-11-2020, 08:12
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#230
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tampa Bay
Boat: 1998 Catalina 320
Posts: 490
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
None of those options sounds like a very good deal for investors. Buy the boat and scramble to move it amid a pandemic? Buy the boat and let DYC use it in exchange for paying maintenance/dockage?
Curious that DYC has not updated its financial condition and reassured investors/charters on its plans to stay afloat during covid.
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02-11-2020, 10:47
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#231
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: South Africa
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 724
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanachie
None of those options sounds like a very good deal for investors. Buy the boat and scramble to move it amid a pandemic? Buy the boat and let DYC use it in exchange for paying maintenance/dockage?
Curious that DYC has not updated its financial condition and reassured investors/charters on its plans to stay afloat during covid.
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Hi,
Thankfully we are with Sunsail and in fact just went back in on another boat with Moorings. They have been awesome. They even allowed us to use all our unused points(all of them!) for 2020 over the next 6 years!
Be that as it may and long may it last, you must remember that the previous post is on the Dream Easy program, so they only paid 35% up front with a balloon of 25% and no return, just usage. If you buy the boat up front 100% you get title, usage and a return (9% over 5 years?). So the options offered to them were not that bad all things considered. Would be interesting to know how long they were in the program and what % of the original purchase price the balloon payment was?
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02-11-2020, 10:50
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#232
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: South Africa
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 724
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
And remember, no matter how you cut it, buying a boat is never an investment, unless it brings you joy, then it is an investment in your happiness!!!
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10-01-2021, 01:52
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#233
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 1
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
we are about to join the dream partnership program in February. yes, it is risky so I am looking for any advice, evidence that could give me peace of mind to proceed or delay the investment. Going through the thread I saw certain positive developments as well as worrying ones. To me it all comes down to 2 things: 1. how 2021 charter season is going to look like, 2. financial stability of the Dream, which depends on the agreement between the DYC and the banks provide financing. As for the charter season there are many reports and assumptions :-) but I have zero knowledge on the financial stability of DYC. do you have any idea how we can get some information about it? thx endre
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10-01-2021, 02:52
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#234
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,933
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Dream moved from Scrub Island BVI'S to Benner Bay USVI'S. The BVI's are essentially closed and will probably (my guess) remain that way for the rest of the season. The Moorings has opened shop in St Pete USA, probably moving assets from locations that are closed? The move by Dream to the USVI'S looks like a good one, their busy here and travel to St Thomas is doable.
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10-01-2021, 10:15
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#235
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Annapolis/Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 55
Posts: 304
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Has the channel into Benner Bay been dredged lately? It is notoriously shallow. Dream Yachts has mostly catamarans, maybe all catamarans now, but some of those big 50 and 60 footers still carry some draft.
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10-01-2021, 12:16
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#237
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,714
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudita
we are about to join the dream partnership program in February. yes, it is risky so I am looking for any advice, evidence that could give me peace of mind to proceed or delay the investment. Going through the thread I saw certain positive developments as well as worrying ones. To me it all comes down to 2 things: 1. how 2021 charter season is going to look like, 2. financial stability of the Dream, which depends on the agreement between the DYC and the banks provide financing. As for the charter season there are many reports and assumptions :-) but I have zero knowledge on the financial stability of DYC. do you have any idea how we can get some information about it? thx endre
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I assume you read this entire thread. What impressions did it form?
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10-01-2021, 14:21
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#238
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Bocas del Toro, Panama
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,844
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Note that DYC suspended payments, and the Moorings and Sunsail have not. Was DYC upfront with you and did they tell you they had suspended payments? I guy I talked to a few weeks ago indicated they were not with him. Also note that DYC owns some of its own boats. How do they make sure that they don't put a priority on chartering their boats, vs yours? Based upon our experience, the boats they buy for the fleet are base boats - no options. The Dufour we chartered allegedly had a cockpit fridge, a freezer below, and an outdoor kitchen as standard items. It had none of those. A Dufour 520 charter boat with no freezer, just a single small fridge. Imagine that!
Unlike the Moorings and Sunsail, who have boats built to their specifications to hold up in the charter trade, DYC does not appear to "beef things up". Our experience was that DYC does not keep up on their maintenance.
You really should look at the plans offered by folks like BVI Yacht Charters. If you plan on using your boat, it's just a much better plan. You pay all bills, including maintenance, and you split the profits. I think it's 20/80, as I recall. 80 to you. Their boats are impeccably maintained. And you can use your boat as much as you want. And as you actively run your boat as a business, there can be certain tax benefits.
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10-01-2021, 14:49
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#239
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 1,022
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
The dream partner program - they have a few different kinds. Is that the one where they own the boat and you effectively prepay 5 and a half years of holidays then buy the boat at 50% of the "new" price after that period? Ie you own nothing until the end.
If so then surely covid has taught you that's a very risky thing to do?
If you buy the boat at start and put it with them to charter then obviously as long as you are not relying on the income for a loan then that's much less risky. Ie you actually own something.
Then it's just a punt on the viability of the operator and how long until chartering returns to normal worldwide.
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13-01-2021, 10:33
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#240
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: South Africa
Boat: Leopard 40
Posts: 724
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Re: Dream Yacht suspending Guaranteed Charter Income payments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep
Note that DYC suspended payments, and the Moorings and Sunsail have not. Was DYC upfront with you and did they tell you they had suspended payments? I guy I talked to a few weeks ago indicated they were not with him. Also note that DYC owns some of its own boats. How do they make sure that they don't put a priority on chartering their boats, vs yours? Based upon our experience, the boats they buy for the fleet are base boats - no options. The Dufour we chartered allegedly had a cockpit fridge, a freezer below, and an outdoor kitchen as standard items. It had none of those. A Dufour 520 charter boat with no freezer, just a single small fridge. Imagine that!
Totally agree with you on this point. Sunsail and Moorings boats are standard across the fleet no matter where you go. A 444 in Seychelles has the same basic options as one in Tahiti. Owners may add some basic extras, but the important stuff will be there, the extras will be a bonus.
Unlike the Moorings and Sunsail, who have boats built to their specifications to hold up in the charter trade, DYC does not appear to "beef things up". Our experience was that DYC does not keep up on their maintenance.
I have seen this to be true in the Seychelles. The condition of the DYC boats was horrific when compared to the Sunsail/Moorings fleet
You really should look at the plans offered by folks like BVI Yacht Charters. If you plan on using your boat, it's just a much better plan. You pay all bills, including maintenance, and you split the profits. I think it's 20/80, as I recall. 80 to you. Their boats are impeccably maintained. And you can use your boat as much as you want. And as you actively run your boat as a business, there can be certain tax benefits.
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Here I disagree. The charter operator will make sure they charter out their own yachts and the guarantee income boats first, long before they charter out the profit split boats. Lets face it, if you are on a profit split scheme ( and its not 20/80) then your boat does not cost the charter company a cent to lie at the dock, however if they have promised another owner a fixed monthly return you can bet your bottom dollar they will make sure that boat is chartered first!
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