Canadian COVID part-2

[bgallinger]

On Oct 4, 2020, these scientists made the Great Barrington Declaration:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...attach/pdf.gif

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

According to this study, we never needed masks in the first place!

That graphic doesn't indicate the amount of voluntary mask use even when there was no mandate... so it doesn't prove what you think it proves.

Pre-COVID, mask use in many Asian countries has given them lower flu rates. Masks have proven useful in this pandemic.

Originally Posted by bgallinger

On Oct 4, 2020, these scientists made the Great Barrington Declaration

(wikipedia entry, with link to the actual declaration)

This declaration offered a possible alternative course of action: in a nutshell, they advocated just protecting "the vulnerable", with no restrictions on the general population.

The basic problems with that approach are:

• ok, who are the vulnerable?
• how can we effectively protect them?
• COVID still harmed many of the "not vulnerable"
• and most important - no general restrictions means that COVID gets to spread and circulate unchecked. Big risk.

The big fear expressed in the GBD is that the restrictions and lockdowns would cause health, social and economic harm. Yet... here we are; the vast majority of us have weathered it, suicides did not shoot up, few of us have fallen into poverty.

The main reason that other medical treatments get postponed or delayed was because of COVID patients eating up beds and resources, not the lockdowns. The GBD approach would have loaded the medical system even more.

The approach advocated by the GBD may be useful in the future, but it's hard to argue that it would have been superior in the COVID pandemic.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... and serious illness and deaths from COVID are way down in this wave, despite the massive numbers of those testing positive, in countries with significant numbers of vaccinated.

If not the vaccines (and other measures where they are still observed), then what?

You are confusing anti-viral effect of a vaccine with the ability of the vaccine to stop the spread of the virus.

Yes, in laboratory tests the vaccines do have an effect on Omicron. Tests show that this effect is measurable for 4 weeks after vaccination. This means that the original two shots have long lost their protection and now it is recommended to take the booster…. but that booster will only protect for a couple weeks and after four weeks it’s effect is not measurable.

But that is not what I commented on. I commented on the false statements about the ability of the vaccinations to protect -other people-, specifically pregnant coworkers, and the consensus is that NO, the vaccinations do not stop the spread of the virus, regardless of pregnancy status.

Edit: and I must address your flabbergasting statement that it is the vaccinations that reduce the symptoms from the virus. This is utterly false: 100% of this is caused by the Omicron variant being benign. It is the virus itself that is ending the pandemic and nothing done by any politician has made a difference; they often made it worse.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You are confusing anti-viral effect of a vaccine with the ability of the vaccine to stop the spread of the virus.

Yes, in laboratory tests the vaccines do have an effect on Omicron. Tests show that this effect is measurable for 4 weeks after vaccination. This means that the original two shots have long lost their protection and now it is recommended to take the booster…. but that booster will only protect for a couple weeks and after four weeks it’s effect is not measurable.

But that is not what I commented on. I commented on the false statements about the ability of the vaccinations to protect -other people-, specifically pregnant coworkers, and the consensus is that NO, the vaccinations do not stop the spread of the virus, regardless of pregnancy status.

You're trying to claim that it's been said that vaccination will STOP the spread of the virus, which has never been the case.

Anything (vaccine, behaviour, etc) that reduces the chance of catching a disease, or the severity and duration of illness, is going to reduce spread. Why is that not obvious?

Edit: and I must address your flabbergasting statement that it is the vaccinations that reduce the symptoms from the virus. This is utterly false: 100% of this is caused by the Omicron variant being benign. It is the virus itself that is ending the pandemic and nothing done by any politician has made a difference; they often made it worse.

Again you're reaching for an absolute. Omicron is less hard-hitting than previous variants that target the lungs, but is NOT 100% benign, and one proposed reason why it isn't hitting us as hard as other variants is because of the amount of prior exposure (through vaccination and/or prior illness) that we now have generally.

In other words, the herd has been gaining immunity. And I agree that Omicron is hastening this.

[Macblaze]

I don't suppose we could stop arguing about and second guessing the politics, morality, scientific theory and intelligence levels of the last two years and just focus on the actual topic?

I am interested in the state of Covid in Canada and the real and actual effects it has on my ability to move about freely to and from my boat. Really, why should we care to engage in a "discussion" of whether masks are effective (I, like everyone else have my own "opinion"), or whether or not the government is right or wrong in its response. I think the fact that pretty much every gov't in the world has acted within a fairly similar set of parameters makes that point pretty much moot (unless you are really going to try and make a case for world-wide conspiracy and in that case I have no time for you). IMHO the convoy is relevant, not because it's a protest that may or may not be fuelled by patriots/idiots and foreign powers, but because it is in effect exacerbating the the problem of restoring some sort of normalcy.

Covid numbers that are being used by the powers that be to restrict/grant freedoms are of course totally relevant. I really don't think it's all that relevant to post numbers that, real or imagined, the government/health authorities are going to just ignore. Go find a "is Covid rally real?" thread and post them there and I will be happy to read them.

Et cetera, et cetera...

Can we just talk about the relevant facts and conditions influencing our actual Canadian reality in this time of crisis (real or imagined it still is screwing with my life pretty much every minute of the day)? Sigh. Probably not...

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You are confusing anti-viral effect of a vaccine with the ability of the vaccine to stop the spread of the virus.



But that is not what I commented on. I commented on the false statements about the ability of the vaccinations to protect -other people-, specifically pregnant coworkers, and the consensus is that NO, the vaccinations do not stop the spread of the virus, regardless of pregnancy status.

Yet Again!

Vaccines have reduced both infections AND transmission.

The facts provide evidence that the vaccines do both.

Recommend that you reference to the prior posts for the links to the research articles.

[nwdiver]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

I don't really have anything to add I just thought I would post rather than subscribe. Typical lazy Canadian sailor.

Me also.

[Montanan]

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I know you mean well but it's not funny. Nothing about this is capable of being funny anymore.

[Mike OReilly]

Agree with Mac. Can we all just agree that none of us are going to change our minds about the scientific basis for any of this stuff, and move back to what is actually happening in CANADA. Most especially how it pertains to having water under keels.

[Montanan]

Informative reference:

https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/pb-pp-eng.html

Reporting requirements for private boaters

This section summarizes important information for private boaters who are navigating Canadian waters or hoping to enter Canada by boat.

On this page
Entry requirements for all boaters
Travel and quarantine
Pre-arrival COVID-19 testing
Use ArriveCAN to submit mandatory travel information
Entry requirements by citizenship and vaccination status
Canadians, permanent residents and persons registered under the Indian Act returning to Canada
Fully vaccinated foreign national boaters
Foreign national boaters (non-residents of Canada) who do not qualify as fully vaccinated
Reporting options
Making your report
Your CBSA report number and secondary inspection
Failure to report
Appealing a seizure or penalty
Faster processing with the NEXUS program
Contact information

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Yet Again!

Vaccines have reduced both infections AND transmission.

The facts provide evidence that the vaccines do both.

Recommend that you reference to the prior posts for the links to the research articles.

For measles? I agree. For Omicron, the whole scientific community agrees that the current vaccines failed to stop it. It’s done and behind us, it failed as in the past sense. The evidence is staring you in the face and you come with a mantra of whatever there was before Omicron

[s/v Jedi]

There is hope! The Canadian Freedom Convoy has arrived in the USA!

This woman, she conveys what the majority of the people think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOxKpCeJPRE

[Mike OReilly]

Sigh... I guess it was too much to ask .

[Montanan]

New Zealand is emulating Canada is some ways.

Authorities in New Zealand have been playing Barry Manilow's greatest hits in an attempt to dislodge protesters camped outside the parliament building. Songs by the US singer are being played on a 15-minute loop, along with the Spanish dance tune, Macarena.

The demonstrators, who are angry at Covid-19 vaccine mandates, responded by playing songs such as Twisted Sister's We're Not Gonna Take It.

The protests began on Tuesday when a convoy of vehicles drove to parliament.

Perhaps it is time to break out the albums of Canada's Nickelback, for an endless loop of the same songs.