Canadian COVID-19 News

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

It is truly difficult, if not impossible, to explain things to people who have their minds made up that they are always right because they got tested, can get tested and their wife is a nurse.

Ok, whatever you think. We'll see how long it's sustainable before things break down and somebody decides there's a better way than the draconian Chinese model that is being used. And that hasn't stopped it in China.

Especially in NW Ontario there is a lot of camp owners and 95% of their income is from US traffic. Is the government just gonna bail 'em out when they go broke? If so, how long is that gonna last? May and June is usually the make or break part of the season for many of those guys, and they've already lost that.

With all of modern technology and medical science, if the people making these decisions can't come up with anything better panic lockdowns, then I don't think we're as advanced as we think we are. We're actually no better off then we were back in 1918.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

Ok, whatever you think. We'll see how long it's sustainable before things break down and somebody decides there's a better way than the draconian Chinese model that is being used. And that hasn't stopped it in China.

Especially in NW Ontario there is a lot of camp owners and 95% of their income is from US traffic. Is the government just gonna bail 'em out when they go broke? If so, how long is that gonna last? May and June is usually the make or break part of the season for many of those guys, and they've already lost that.

With all of modern technology and medical science, if the people making these decisions can't come up with anything better panic lockdowns, then I don't think we're as advanced as we think we are. We're actually no better off then we were back in 1918.

OK, CC, let's try this again:


What would YOU suggest?

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

Ok, whatever you think. We'll see how long it's sustainable before things break down and somebody decides there's a better way than the draconian Chinese model that is being used. And that hasn't stopped it in China.

Especially in NW Ontario there is a lot of camp owners and 95% of their income is from US traffic. Is the government just gonna bail 'em out when they go broke? If so, how long is that gonna last? May and June is usually the make or break part of the season for many of those guys, and they've already lost that.

With all of modern technology and medical science, if the people making these decisions can't come up with anything better panic lockdowns, then I don't think we're as advanced as we think we are. We're actually no better off then we were back in 1918.

The Canada wage subsidy has been extended to December.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wag...sion-1.5647520

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

We go to Thunder Bay and pick up a brass valve. The Canadian Customs ask where we're going, how long there, etc.. No problem. Enjoy your visit, please spend all your money.

Come back and it's "what did you get in Canada this time?" Well, this brass valve, see? They look at it and examine it, look thru it. Like it's got contraband in it, or maybe cast into the brass. "How much did this cost?" Ah, it was only $35 bucks? "You got paperwork on that?

But then the next time, you get a different agent that sees you going thru all the time, and it's "ok - see ya' - hope you get your boat fixed."

I lived in Thunder Bay for a decade. We did the same dance in the other direction all the time. In general I found both border guards to be pretty good most of the time. Occasionally you'd hit an American agent, barely out of diapers, who was taking his/her job Waaay Toooo Seriously. But most of the time it was a pleasant and quick exchange.

Now, the crossings down at busy points are a whole different matter. There I do find an increasing rate of a-holes. But it's their job, and I just try and remain civil and calm. No other choice anyway.

[OloteleMtn]

If people who test negative still allegedly have COVID, and people who do not feel sick, even those not tested still being reported as positive, where does that leave us? Something is fishy as hell in Sweden (and Canada, USA, France, etc)

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\But it's their job, and I just try and remain civil and calm. No other choice anyway.

Mike,nice stories about the good guys.

No, it's not their job to be a-holes. Why then would the Canadian staff be universally promoted as friendly and in some places "even the US" staff?

Being a meanie isn't in the job description.

I remember after 9/11 when the US hired a gaziliion TSA agents. Israel, OTOH, had SMART people wandering around the airports looking for, and finding "bad actors." They were trained.

TSA guard training? Not so much...
And yes, I know TSA isn't CBP, but same concept.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

...Especially in NW Ontario there is a lot of camp owners and 95% of their income is from US traffic. Is the government just gonna bail 'em out when they go broke? If so, how long is that gonna last? May and June is usually the make or break part of the season for many of those guys, and they've already lost that.

Canada, like most other developed countries, have come down on the side of life over money. There is very real pain and consequences for all these enforced closures. And I am very concerned about the authoritarian lessons our masters are learning (both public and private). But most civilized countries have decided that one can't enjoy wealth when you're dead.

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

With all of modern technology and medical science, if the people making these decisions can't come up with anything better panic lockdowns, then I don't think we're as advanced as we think we are. We're actually no better off then we were back in 1918.

You're right, lockdowns and isolation remain the best solution. There's no magic bullet. We are the ecosystem for this virus, so just like putting out a forest fire, we are depriving the bug of what it needs to live and expand.

Vaccines are really our only other big tool, but more and more the scientific evidence is indicating any inoculation we create may provide partial and temporary protection at best (much like influenza). Herd immunity gained from exposure also seems to be limited in its efficacy.

There are no silver bullets, and only those who were around in 1918 have any common sense experience to fall back on. For the rest of us, none of this is common.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Mike,nice stories about the good guys.

No, it's not their job to be a-holes. Why then would the Canadian staff be universally promoted as friendly and in some places "even the US" staff?

Being a meanie isn't in the job description.

All true. I put it down to cultural differences. We have a less militant approach to most policing here in Canada.

But I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find examples of Canadian CBSA staff behaving like a-holes as well .

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

OK, CC, let's try this again:
What would YOU suggest?

How about a medical checkpoint at the border crossings? I think the viral tests are recognized as being pretty accurate, and this is what is used at the US ports of entry at the airports. But they've only implemented it for air travel so far. They've COMPLETELY ignored the road and maritime ports of entry. And it's not like the resources don't exist to do it.

So like our friends in Canada that want to come to the US to get to their boat. Prior to the border crossing there is a medical checkpoint where they get tested. If they are clean, they are good to go. If they test positive, all the normal stuff on that side of the border applies for people with positive test.

The actual lab process does not take very long. The antigen test takes less than 30 minutes in the lab. The paperwork, processing and record keeping takes longer than the actual test.

For pete's sake, they been doing this with animals shipped across country borders for years. There are infectious diseases in animals that are way more contagious than Corona in humans, that will outright mass kill various animal species if they come in contact with it. It has worked successfully for that for at least 40 years now.

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

But I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find examples of Canadian CBSA staff behaving like a-holes as well .

It may be, but as many times as we've been across the border we have NEVER met a Canadian Customs agent that was anything less than polite and courteous. Never.

The other way around, not so much.

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Canada's mortality rate to positive Covid cases ratio seems comparatively quite high at 8.1% versus 3.8%, and the USA has a considerably higher testing of its population, 13% versus 8.6%

Statistics,

Speaking as a retired nurse (public health), comparing the percentage of the population tested fails for this reason.

If a country has a low number of cases (not percentage), then there are tests aplenty for TTQ (testing, tracing, and quarantining). TTQ is what keeps the numbers low. Low cases = low need for testing = low percentage of population tested = Canada.

In the case of the US, the very high numbers of cases makes TTQ impossible, which allows the numbers to become exponential and to explode (as is happening now). High number of cases = higher number of tests (but insufficient for TTQ (now impossible) = uncontrolled growth of infections and chaos = the US.

The mortality rate in and of itself is meaningless and changes. Consider that when the virus is well controlled, the tests are finding cases and those they have contacted (TTQ) . Compare that to the US where scared people are lining up for up to 8 hours in their cars to get tested. But the biggest factor is the fact that the US has had a huge increase in new cases - who haven't died yet.

Deaths always lag new cases by some weeks (3-5), so temporarily the percentage of deaths seems low, but will very soon explode just as the new cases did. You will soon see the US' mortality rate increase dramatically.

For the world, note how deaths mimic cases, just behind...

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by CruisingCouple

We live not too far from the Canadian border, which is what attracted my attention on this thread. We have friends that live just south of Kakabeka Falls, west of Thunder Bay. They come here to the States all the time to buy gas because it's cheaper than in Canada. When ever they get something shipped they have it sent to the border store on the US side and come down to get it instead of having it shipped into Canada. Their boat is here in our yard for the last two years. They bought it here and don't dare take it across the border because they get charged a huge tax to take their boat across the border into Canada.

They repeatedly tell us we don't know how lucky we are to be living on this side of the border. They would like the whole thing to end ASAP so they can get to their boat.

So I guess all Canadians are not the same.

Taxes on gas and other stuff is cheaper in the US, we do have to pay for our 'free' healthcare. The amount of tax when you import a boat depends on whether it was made in the US, Canada, or Mexico for that matter.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

There are no silver bullets, and only those who were around in 1918 have any common sense experience to fall back on. For the rest of us, none of this is common.

My father had the flu in 1918 in the Canadian army in France. Does that count? If he had died it would not have been good news for me.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by AiniA

My father had the flu in 1918 in the Canadian army in France. Does that count? If he had died it would not have been good news for me.

I'm sure it gives you a slightly better appreciation for what we're experiencing now AiniA.

Some people claim that "common sense" is a better guide than expertise or science. Common sense is only useful for common events or experiences. Almost none of us have ever experienced anything like a true global pandemic. Therefore, there is nothing "common" about this that we can make sense of.

[CruisingCouple]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Vaccines are really our only other big tool, but more and more the scientific evidence is indicating any inoculation we create may provide partial and temporary protection at best (much like influenza). Herd immunity gained from exposure also seems to be limited in its efficacy.

Honestly, I think the results on herd immunity are still up for discussion. If it didn't exist, the human race would be gone already long ago. People from developed countries, for instance, have to be very careful going to visit people from undeveloped countries because common things like the flu or other coronaviruses will kill those people. The people in the developed country might get sick from it or even not be affected by it due to being exposed to it and developing immune response that lessens the impact of it.

My wife thinks vaccine for a coronavirus is smoke and mirrors, and not gonna happen. Maybe more like a flu shot that can only provide limited protection from 4 identified strains for that season. If if a new strain or mutation shows up on the scene, you are still susceptible. And flu shots are not effective for people with compromised immune system. Because they contain the virus protein that triggers the immune system to produce antibodies. If the immune system is not 100%, the flu shot won't work or is less effective.

The results of the COVID virus already show that it primarily attacks people with compromised immune systems, and most people recover just fine. So there is little hope of any sort of a vaccine providing any protection for those people anyway, other than lessening their exposure to it because it is less prevalent in the general population. Which is the basic principle of so-called "herd immunity".

I think there is already something like 9 strains or mutations identified of the current virus. There will be more. They mutate all the time.