Merged LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I don't know current but 4 years ago my 250ah calb cells it cost me 600 for them a new battery monitor with 300 amp shunt and a 200amp Daly bms single in single out custom programed for my parameters with active top balancing .

Factory direct for my marine repair company.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3063595
The list of all parts and cost posted in my refit thread .

$600 for 250Ah ? That's more like $2.40 per Ah all up.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by aybabtme

If you have 3.6kW solar and 11kVA Victron inverter/charger on a catamaran, you've got the budget to just put 100% lithium. 🤣

Lithium isn't that expensive.

If only that were true !. Slight difference between what we have already, and what finances allow to be purchased next. Covid went and made a mess.

Just to clarify, 11kva Generator (onan), and 5kw Victron Quattro Inverter/Charger.

If I could, I'd buy 4x 1000AH Winston cells, and the rest of the kit and just do it !.


I am very happy with our Solar setup though: We have 10x 360w Sunpower solar panels (6 on the back, 4 four on the bimini Hardtop), connected to 2x Victron 100/150 MPPT controllers. I say 3.6kw nominal as of course we never reach that in reality (Sun Angles, partial shading, Age of panells, blah blah, and those two controllers can't provide that much anyway. That said, regulary see between 2400 and 2600w out of them when running a load on the Inverter (Water heater, microwave etc), and almost even better, see 300-500w on cloudy days.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by aybabtme

What's your budget? 400Ah of LFP is 2k$, without the charging equipment.

$3k - $3.5k at present. So if I can stage some, would be ideal.

I didn't plan to start this now, but the failure of the FLA batteries and the price to replace them, has pushed it along,

Currently thinking 400AH now, and adding anothe 400AH later. 2P4S. It's not ideal, I'd much prefer to just get the 1000AH cells and be done, but thats > $7k inc VAT just for cells. (Europe, from GWL Power).

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Catapault

$3k - $3.5k at present. So if I can stage some, would be ideal.



I didn't plan to start this now, but the failure of the FLA batteries and the price to replace them, has pushed it along,



Currently thinking 400AH now, and adding anothe 400AH later. 2P4S. It's not ideal, I'd much prefer to just get the 1000AH cells and be done, but thats > $7k inc VAT just for cells. (Europe, from GWL Power).

Buy Winston cells direct from the factory via Julia Yu sales@skypowerintl.com and I’m sure you can get 4x 1000Ah cells for USD4,000 + shipping. Doing it piecemeal doesn’t really make sense, unless you truly can’t afford it.

[aybabtme]

If you're in Europe, these are 2320€ for 406Ah, including BMS and everything. You could start with that, and use the rest of your budget to upgrade your alternators or install battery-to-battery chargers. Then later add a few of these when your budget allows.

https://www.europe.sokbattery.com/pr...th-built-in-he

The custom DIY raw cell stuff is fun but a bit janky, and not really cheaper once you factor in the BMS, wiring, switch, breaker/fuse, etc... versus a drop in pack like above. I've build a large raw cell pack before and I'm going to be upfitting a new-to-me boat in the coming weeks... I'm going with the SOK 12V I'm sharing. Life's too short and it's a wash as to which one is cheaper (DIY vs Buy).

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

Sorry, repeating it doesn't make it any more correct or wrong, it just annoys people that would come across it "1000 times".







So how do you then make use of those "other" batts, if they're separate? A complete second power bus maybe?

Connecting in a LA merely because you can’t control the alternator IS wrong , because you are charging a starter battery with the wrong charge profile. You either undercharge the Li or wrongly charge the starter

Today it’s simple get a proper Li capable alternator regulator that can be remotely controlled and or add in a alternator protector to boot.

If you are going to the lengths to install LI , do it right

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I can get 400ah cells for $100 per cell or 400 for a 12v 400ah battery plus shipping and the bms

Charging for most of us means changing settings on your solar controller.

I find that very hard to believe as I can’t get LA for that

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by aybabtme

If you're in Europe, these are 2320€ for 406Ah, including BMS and everything. You could start with that, and use the rest of your budget to upgrade your alternators or install battery-to-battery chargers. Then later add a few of these when your budget allows.

https://www.europe.sokbattery.com/pr...th-built-in-he

The custom DIY raw cell stuff is fun but a bit janky, and not really cheaper once you factor in the BMS, wiring, switch, breaker/fuse, etc... versus a drop in pack like above. I've build a large raw cell pack before and I'm going to be upfitting a new-to-me boat in the coming weeks... I'm going with the SOK 12V I'm sharing. Life's too short and it's a wash as to which one is cheaper (DIY vs Buy).

I could build 2 of my diy 250ah batteries for the cost of that 206ah drop in . My biggest issue is no clue as to the bms in the drop in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I find that very hard to believe as I can’t get LA for that

Well the difference is I'm in America and I order direct from the company business to business. The $1 per Ah is just the cells not including the shipping or the bms.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Well the difference is I'm in America and I order direct from the company business to business. The $1 per Ah is just the cells not including the shipping or the bms.

Generally in Europe business To business pricing is similar to US business to business

I would mind a PM giving me the battery supplier details

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by aybabtme

If you're in Europe, these are 2320€ for 406Ah, including BMS and everything. You could start with that, and use the rest of your budget to upgrade your alternators or install battery-to-battery chargers. Then later add a few of these when your budget allows.

https://www.europe.sokbattery.com/pr...th-built-in-he

The custom DIY raw cell stuff is fun but a bit janky, and not really cheaper once you factor in the BMS, wiring, switch, breaker/fuse, etc... versus a drop in pack like above. I've build a large raw cell pack before and I'm going to be upfitting a new-to-me boat in the coming weeks... I'm going with the SOK 12V I'm sharing. Life's too short and it's a wash as to which one is cheaper (DIY vs Buy).

That seems very expensive.

We are in France and built our 12V LiFePo4 battery of 840Ah on the base of Chinese 3.2V cells from Alibaba and with a lot of know how kindly provided by Newhaul and others.
Look up my loong thread on this. It's got the suppliers in as well as far as I recall.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ne-247872.html

Works nicely since last year.

That way we even had the chance to choose our BMS and load balancers.
Only thing I would do differently, I'd choose the 400A Daly "Smart" BMS vs. the 400A Daly "Dumb" next time.

Total cost (Cells, load balancer an Daly BMS) was about 1750€ including shipping and taxes.
Add a few € for wiring and switches and you are all set.

[goboatingnow]

The best I’ve seen is $0.60 per Ah packaged as 550 Ah

This would be $2.40 per 12v AH this is dollar pricing landed in Europe before end user freight

This includes vat so business to business would be buying at 23% less. ( $ 1.95) volume discount may apply on top of that

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Generally in Europe business To business pricing is similar to US business to business

I would mind a PM giving me the battery supplier details

I get my cells direct from calb. Ie purchased from Chinese company b2b factory direct.
Pay factory cost plus shipping and that's all no taxes or other fees.

Likely could get cheaper if I went to a no name cell.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Catapault

@CatNewBee Would you still go with the RECBMS if you were doing your install today ? Or is there something else worth serious considseration.



Especially considering the new ABYC Lithium requirments comming out. (Alarm before cut-off etc)

I am happy with the REC so far, it works and it is completely configurable. Well the balancer is on the weak side with 1.5A.

ABYC is of no concern for me, we are a EU flagged boat, so CE certification would be an issue if any - but it is unlikely.

The REC can raise alarms before turning off, as it has 4 interfaces that are programmanle plus 2 data interfaces (RS485 and CAN), so depending on jour system design you could switch whatever you like whenever you like, including a fog horn.

I personally like the small form factor and the well protected design, no screws that can loose on wires, a nice waterprotected harness. There are other BMS around, but most are a no-go for me.

I would dismiss

- any BMS with cell modules
- any BMS with built in FET transistors that switch the power
- any BMS with preset values that cannot be programmed.

There are not many left after this.

I am not in the market for a new BMS, so maybe there are some good new ones around.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I am happy with the REC so far, it works and it is completely configurable. Well the balancer is on the weak side with 1.5A.

ABYC is of no concern for me, we are a EU flagged boat, so CE certification would be an issue if any - but it is unlikely.

The REC can raise alarms before turning off, as it has 4 interfaces that are programmanle plus 2 data interfaces (RS485 and CAN), so depending on jour system design you could switch whatever you like whenever you like, including a fog horn.

I personally like the small form factor and the well protected design, no screws that can loose on wires, a nice waterprotected harness. There are other BMS around, but most are a no-go for me.

I would dismiss

- any BMS with cell modules
- any BMS with built in FET transistors that switch the power
- any BMS with preset values that cannot be programmed.

There are not many left after this.

I am not in the market for a new BMS, so maybe there are some good new ones around.

What’s wrong with FET power switches