100AH lithium battery holds MORE power than 100AH lead acid??

[CrispyCringle]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I watched the Wll Powers tear downs and got 4 $300/100ah Power Queens. I didn't see any with rocks or wood spacers inside, but so what if they do?

Well, I dont save every article I read. But if wood and rocks dont bother you, it doesnt bother me.

Heres another pretty exhaustive read that I did save, that has some good commentary and photos on the internals of various battery manufacturers.

https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-life...ated-consumer/

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The engine's alternator is designed for flooded cell or AGM batteries. It is from 1999, well before lithium batteries were available.

Someone on another forum suggested what seems like a good solution; a DC to DC charger. This connects from the AGM starting battery to the lithium house bank. The alternator or battery charger delivers the appropriate voltage to the AGM starting battery and the DC to DC charger uses the house battery to charge the lithium bank.

I haven't priced the DC to DC charger yet though.

You did not answer the question anyway most self-regulated marine alternator charge at 14V and fall back to 13,8V. Maximum charge voltage for my Victron LFP is 14.2V that make my self-regulated marine alternators suitable to charge LFP's. A 55A alternator properly installed will charge a 100Ah LFP.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

You did not answer the question anyway most self-regulated marine alternator charge at 14V and fall back to 13,8V. Maximum charge voltage for my Victron LFP is 14.2V that make my self-regulated marine alternators suitable to charge LFP's. A 55A alternator properly installed will charge a 100Ah LFP.

One thing to watch for is higher voltage right after startup in cold weather. Some internally regulated alternators will get to 15 volts if it's cold until they warm up a bit.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The BMS should never cut off a charge source because the charge source should stop charging well before the BMS would do anything about it.

Only during disasters, like a battery with failing cells, should it be necessary for the BMS to take any such action. For “normal” out of balance cell issues, the BMS may enable a balancer: again this has nothing to do with cutting off chargers.

Quoted for truth

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

You did not answer the question anyway most self-regulated marine alternator charge at 14V and fall back to 13,8V. Maximum charge voltage for my Victron LFP is 14.2V that make my self-regulated marine alternators suitable to charge LFP's. A 55A alternator properly installed will charge a 100Ah LFP.

True

But that requires other electronic gadgetry like a balmar smart reg, Wakespeed etc etc to control charge and temp of alternator
And you also have the issue of the starts not getting charge so then needing DC2DC from house bank to starts.

If using the alt straight to house bank, in relatively short time the alternator will fail.
I killed off two large frame alts with Voltage sensitive/dual bank relays trying to do that on the cheap.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

Well, I dont save every article I read. But if wood and rocks dont bother you, it doesnt bother me.

I have watched at least 10 of Will Power tear downs and like I said never have seen rocks or wood spacers. I don't see why any builder would use as foam board is so much less trouble. But, again why would wood spacer be a problem as it is common to use those in battery boxes if using different sizes. Maybe you believe the $800 dropin in LFPs come with some special engineered foam

sounds a lot of nothing

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

True

But that requires other electronic gadgetry like a balmar smart reg, Wakespeed etc etc to control charge and temp of alternator
And you also have the issue of the starts not getting charge so then needing DC2DC from house bank to starts.

If using the alt straight to house bank, in relatively short time the alternator will fail.
I killed off two large frame alts with Voltage sensitive/dual bank relays trying to do that on the cheap.

Not at all if charging an 100Ah LFP

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

You did not answer the question anyway most self-regulated marine alternator charge at 14V and fall back to 13,8V. Maximum charge voltage for my Victron LFP is 14.2V that make my self-regulated marine alternators suitable to charge LFP's. A 55A alternator properly installed will charge a 100Ah LFP.

It will charge it just fine. But the 13.8V is going to overcharge if you stay there long enough and that is a problem.

This is IMO, it matter not to me what people do. Especially if they do on purpose.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

Not at all if charging an 100Ah LFP

Do any cruisers that have nice things and a requirement for lifepo4 have a battery bank that small?

Pretty sure I had more than 100ah in the 70's
Enough for nav lights and a radio and not much more

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It will charge it just fine. But the 13.8V is going to overcharge if you stay there long enough and that is a problem.

This is IMO, it matter not to me what people do. Especially if they do on purpose.

Never been a problem so far in any case the BMS will disconnect the charge.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Do any cruisers that have nice things and a requirement for lifepo4 have a battery bank that small?

Pretty sure I had more than 100ah in the 70's
Enough for nav lights and a radio and not much more

You know it is possible to have more than one and charge them in turn.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I have watched at least 10 of Will Power tear downs and like I said never have seen rocks or wood spacers. I don't see why any builder would use as foam board is so much less trouble. But, again why would wood spacer be a problem as it is common to use those in battery boxes if using different sizes. Maybe you believe the $800 dropin in LFPs come with some special engineered foam

sounds a lot of nothing

It is important to note the release date of articles and videos. When Rod Collins wrote that, the drop-in batteries were pretty bad. Things have changed though and I believe that even the cheapest batteries I could buy online, from LiTime, are now considered pretty good, also by people like Rod Collins.

I must say that the only reason I bought cheap drop-in batteries is that I also have a high end battery with Winston cells which provides me with something to fall back to if needed.

All the stories about cheap foreign production from countries like China or India have become invalid. The stainless steel fasteners I buy on Amazon are 1/10th the price and 10x the quality of what Home Depot offers.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

Never been a problem so far in any case the BMS will disconnect the charge.

like saying "the fuse will blow"

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The BMS should never cut off a charge source because the charge source should stop charging well before the BMS would do anything about it.

Only during disasters, like a battery with failing cells, should it be necessary for the BMS to take any such action. For “normal” out of balance cell issues, the BMS may enable a balancer: again this has nothing to do with cutting off chargers.

Well then Victron has no glue what they are doing, look at Victron Smart BMS or the Electrodacus BMS both work the same way steering the sources, load and charge. And both comply with ISO.
Or the offgrid garage, Andi's 3 differnent BMS shutting of the charges when bank is full, the commercial BMS like seplos... doing the same. They all have an end of charge parameter.
Its a battery management system to manage and optimize the bank. The BMS knows the cell voltages, the SOC, the WH and the current per cell better then any charge source ever can and therefor can exactly tell when to stop charging.
So why shouldn't the BMS not doing that as the only device in the whole system that can do that all on cell level?
Whats the advantage that an MPPT is doing that on total voltage, fooled partly by the voltage drop of connecting cables/fuses.....?
And if that fails the charge sources are the first line of defence (like there is no battery management system), after that comes the pure BMS as protective device like in drop ins with LVC or HVC.

Beside drop ins and cheap FET BMS a BMS does far more then protecting the cells, its optimizing its charge....
I think we should seperate BMS protective function (like in drop ins) and its battery management functions.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Well then Victron has no glue what they are doing, look at Victron Smart BMS or the Electrodacus BMS both work the same way steering the sources, load and charge.

Its a battery management system to manage and optimize the bank. The BMS knows the cell voltages, the SOC, the WH and the current per cell better then any charge source ever can and therefor can exactly tell when to stop charging.
So why shouldn't the BMS not doing that as the only device in the whole system that can do that all on cell level?

And if that fails the charge sources are the first line of defence (like there is no battery management system), after that comes the pure BMS as protective device like in drop ins with LVC or HVC.

Beside drop ins and cheap FET BMS a BMS does far more then protecting the cells, its optimizing its charge....

That’s not true, the reason they sell that is that there is a market demand for it. They are Dutch like me; the Dutch will sell anything when someone wants to buy it. During the 80-year war with the Spanish, the Dutch sold them canons because why let the opportunity to sell something slip away