100AH lithium battery holds MORE power than 100AH lead acid??

[s/v Jedi]

Here is a PDF with complete specs and graphs of my Winston 400Ah cells. No magic, just a robust cell with capacity to spare.

Still the best to be had imo.

[Putt-Putt]

Although you may possess the wand, (if thats what you Jedi's call it) I would not infer you possess any magic.

Your link shows the same thing, charge at 0.5 Ca until 4.0V and you have a 400Ah + 15% , or a 460 Ah battery, fair enough.

So in real life do you get at a 0.1C discharge rate (likely close to a real life discharge rate) the performance expected out of a 400 X 1.8 = a 720 Ah battery, like the Cat'pn. says?

I'm hoping you say yes, so I don't have to pull that wretched PM machine from the trash!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

Although you may possess the wand, (if thats what you Jedi's call it) I would not infer you possess any magic.

Your link shows the same thing, charge at 0.5 Ca until 4.0V and you have a 400Ah + 15% , or a 460 Ah battery, fair enough.

So in real life do you get at a 0.1C discharge rate (likely close to a real life discharge rate) the performance expected out of a 400 X 1.8 = a 720 Ah battery, like the Cat'pn. says?

I'm hoping you say yes, so I don't have to pull that wretched PM machine from the trash!

The discharge graph is in there as well.

[Putt-Putt]

Ya, I know it is, upper right quadrant if you can accept "normal temp." But only at 0.5Ca and greater. Who in this world discharges a 400 Ah battery consistently at 200 Amps? What happens at a real life discharge rate of about 0.1C +/- or 40 Amps or less? Is the Cap'tn right, I get free energy?

Don't be afraid to say I dunno know, I can only go by the graph. If so, I better start digging in the trash.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Putt-Putt

Ya, I know it is, upper right quadrant if you can accept "normal temp." But only at 0.5Ca and greater. Who in this world discharges a 400 Ah battery consistently at 200 Amps? What happens at a real life discharge rate of about 0.1C +/- or 40 Amps or less? Is the Cap'tn right, I get free energy?

Don't be afraid to say I dunno know, I can only go by the graph. If so, I better start digging in the trash.

Graphs tell you much more than you see, plus you can easily deduct what a 0.25Cm 0.1C will look like by following the trend of other rate reductions.

What is important is to first look at the data given. For example, each of the four rates presented in these graphs show that you put in more than you get out. Easiest to see with the green 2C plot: for charging it takes more than 110% but with discharge you only get 110%. It is the same with all other plots. You never get out more than you put in. No magic.

[T1 Terry]

Ah, I see where I got myself crossed up:

So, this is what I mean by adding the time into the equation:

The Lead acid deep cycle C20 rated 100Ah battery
a constant 10 amp load would supply the load for around 4 hrs at best before the 50% SoC was reached.

The Winston LYP C2 100Ah battery
a constant 10 amp load would still be supplying that 10 amps for more than 50 hrs before the 50% SoC point was reached



T1 Terry

What I should have posted was the voltage, not the 50% because that is an unknown for the Winston LYP @ C10 load, the only known graph is at a C2 load.

So, I'll type it out again with the correct references

So, this is what I mean by adding the time into the equation:

From these Full River lead acid deep cycle specs for one of their 105Ah batteries
https://fullriverbattery.com/batteries/part-dc105-12/
The Lead acid deep cycle C20 rated 100Ah battery
a constant 10 amp load would supply the load for around 4.5 hrs at best before the 12v under load was reach and this is generally accepted as the 50% SoC mark. As the battery ages, the 50% SoC will reduce, so a voltage under load is the better bench mark

The Winston LYP C2 100Ah battery
a constant 10 amp load would still be supplying that 10 amps for more than 50 hrs before the 12v under load point was reached, the same voltage as the 50% SoC of the lead acid battery ....... The 50 hrs was over the top, an unknown, but, I'd guess at around 20 hrs which is probably what I meant to type .... but the brain has been a tad scrambled since the workshop fire .... an accelerated case of old timers disease probably ....

T1 Terry

[s/v Jedi]

Ehhhrrrmmmm…

[Putt-Putt]

Well, it seems T1 has moved from extracting 5x the energy that the battery actually possesses, to only about twice the energy, much like the Cp'tn.

I share the sentiments of you large hairy friend.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

If you have basic knowledge of DC electrics, to build your own battery packs is vastly cheaper than purchasing retail. The knowledge is out there. Not hard.

Looking at a Winston Thundersky, their 100Ah cells do not come that cheap at AUD 200 a piece and, just to produce a home made battery that comes without certification, therefore uninsurable, does not seem to be a vastly cheaper option.

https://lifepo4.com.au/shop/cells-li...b-lyp100aha-b/

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...2022-07-04.pdf

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Baronkrak

Looking at a Winston Thundersky, their 100Ah cells do not come that cheap at AUD 200 a piece and, ,

Likely the most expensive cell out there

just to produce a home made battery that comes without certification, therefore uninsurable

Evidence to support your claim?

does not seem to be a vastly cheaper option

.

Well if you only have eyes for one brand you are likely correct
I built 280ah @ 24v X 3 using A Grade matched and batched EVE 280k.

I did do a lot of research prior and followed others who had big results
There are now known sources for quality cells and very successful long proven designs to follow if you care to look.

Total for 840ah of battery including everything was under $5000 AUD and cheaper than AGM

Performance wise, night and day for us running a mostly 240v boat.

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

....
But to me that is like having a 15A breaker feeding through a 20A fuse in case the breaker doesn't trip.

It is often a requirement that a HRC fuse protect a circuit breaker.