"Evicted": Marina Won't Renew Contract for Next Year to maximize Profit

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Classic case of correlation is not causation.

So we just need to start WW3, so the post war economic boom can be replicated...great plan...NOT.

That time period was driven by capitalism, companies needed more workers than were available, so wages grew. By the 80's, things were settle back to a more realistic level.

"realistic level"? So the WW II labour shortage lasted 30+ years did it?
Not making a correlation, just stating a fact: boomers did better on average than millenials are doing now. Even late boomers entering work in the late 60s and early 70s did better. Why is that? Why is that ok?

Here's one explanation I found interesting (can't remember the source): After WW II and as the Cold War took shape, there was fear among the Western governments that they could also face a worker revolt. So they allowed wages to rise and tolerated unions, and our workers thrived. As the Cold War threat receded, and in the dawn of globalization, the worker was no longer regarded so well... Unions were busted, wages stagnated, jobs offshored, temp workers parachuted in, pension funds raided... and now "contracts" and gigs, all short-term and without benefits.

Boomers are a bit before my time but I don't recall stories of them going to college for 8-10yrs in silly majors that had no job prospects.

Maybe we need to refocus high school and have them going to work rather than college, since that's what your article appears to propose as a good thing?

Um in my case I actually wish i went to technical college rather than university; it would have been closer to what I really liked doing (and ended up doing anyway). But as career advice? There's certainly a need for more in the trades, but we won't attract more people into them until trades get more respect and pay half-decently. And where are the apprenticeships?

Been on a big construction site lately? It seems preferable to simply admit more immigrants with trade skills and low wage demands. You can see the faces change as the next wave of immigrants replaces the current ones who started asking for better money and conditions.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Capitalists don't love exploiting illegal aliens. It's the inconsistencies and in many cases socialist political positioning that allow the unscrupulous to abuse the situation. The Capitalists are cornered into the unfortunate position of participating or going bankrupt as they compete against the unscrupulous...

I'm confused, wouldn't they be competing against other unscrupulous capitalists in a capitalist economy? They wouldn't be competing against socialist or communist businesses in a capitalistic economy. Sounds like a victim justification by saying that if corporation X hires illegal immigrants to drive down production costs than I have been forced to do the same to remain competitive, so you should forgive me, or allow the same. ???? I'm not speaking of corporations moving production ofshore to take advantage of cheaper labor. I'm speaking about blatent abuses of civil imigration laws. They all speak about how they want an end to illegal imigration yet they enable it to improve their bottom line. Talking out of both sides of their mouths.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

...... I'm speaking about blatent abuses of civil imigration laws. They all speak about how they want an end to illegal imigration yet they enable it to improve their bottom line. Talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Hi Gadagirl,
...,you are right, but we need to be honest about who "They" are?

We are all complacent because of our demand for cheap agricultural products.

Farmers have seasonal high labor needs and overtime costs at US mandated rates would drive prices way up past 3rd world imports

So we all complain about the injustice....
...but not too loudly !

[MicHughV]

Well, I see this topic has drifted into politics...which means no clear way forward....

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi Gadagirl,
...,you are right, but we need to be honest about who "They" are?

We are all complacent because of our demand for cheap agricultural products.

Farmers have seasonal high labor needs and overtime costs at US mandated rates would drive prices way up past 3rd world imports

So we all complain about the injustice....
...but not too loudly !

Well, some of "we", including yourself, can at least acknowledge the truth, while some I would term "they" not only ignore or deny that this goes on, "they" even choose to attack and vilify the undocumented workers when it's politically advantageous to do so.

(and let's also note that it IS possible to create agricultural "guest worker" programs. Other countries do. Winking at the hiring of illegals while harassing them at the same time is not exactly the most honourable of approaches)

... and this is of course waay too far off the political cliff. So let's stick to marinas.

[Pelagic]

Back to Marinas.
Does anyone have data on the number of boats, too big for a trailer compared to the number of Marina slips available in the US?

Is it also the issue for some liveaboards that they still need to go to work and have the boat instead of a house/ apartment?

Here in the Philippines, mostly just anchorages, few yacht clubs and very limited infrastructure, so many cruisers deciding to stay here, give up and sell their boats, due to frustrations in maintenance.

Personally, I like the wild wild west aspects of being here as it keeps the numbers down

[Marinarius]

When looking, I also found marinas in the NE that cater to service+storage/mooring only clients. It said so in their mooring contract, and calls from a DIY owner don't get returned. That is a valid business model I suppose, but not my cup of tea.


But it seems to me that if the cost of mooring is going to double or triple (my estimate based on my research) due to the annual maintenance bill, then a lot of older less valuable boats will become uneconomic to keep, and may end up being recycled (some rightfully so I might add).


The result could be lower demand for slips and thus, lower slip prices.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I remember some years back when Florida instituted a so-called " luxury tax" on any boat over $100K. Almost overnight, the marine market collapsed. That law was eventually rescinded, but the damage was done. It took years for the marine market to regain it's footing.

It's a fine line between killing the goose that lays the golden egg or killing the goose.

Memory's a tricky little sucker. FL has and has had a sales tax on boats for some time, but I would be interested to see details on this "luxury tax" I don’t believe ever happened. There was a federal level tax on boats in the early 90s that I believe you are probably remembering.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Memory's a tricky little sucker. FL has and has had a sales tax on boats for some time, but I would be interested to see details on this "luxury tax" I don’t believe ever happened. There was a federal level tax on boats in the early 90s that I believe you are probably remembering.

Actually, it was the Reagan administration. The luxury tax didn't last long, but it managed to kill a couple of boat manufacturers.

[Shanachie]

Correction: The luxury tax was imposed by President George H.W. Bush, Reagan's former VP. It was repealed in the early '90s.

[MicHughV]

I believe the Florida " luxury" tax came about some time in the late 80's...then repealed...see below


LUXURY TAX REPEAL A LONG TIME COMING - Sun Sentinelhttps://www.sun-sentinel.com › fl-xpm-1992-07-07-92...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

"realistic level"? So the WW II labour shortage lasted 30+ years did it?
Not making a correlation, just stating a fact: boomers did better on average than millenials are doing now. Even late boomers entering work in the late 60s and early 70s did better. Why is that? Why is that ok?

Here's one explanation I found interesting (can't remember the source): After WW II and as the Cold War took shape, there was fear among the Western governments that they could also face a worker revolt. So they allowed wages to rise and tolerated unions, and our workers thrived. As the Cold War threat receded, and in the dawn of globalization, the worker was no longer regarded so well... Unions were busted, wages stagnated, jobs offshored, temp workers parachuted in, pension funds raided... and now "contracts" and gigs, all short-term and without benefits.

Um in my case I actually wish i went to technical college rather than university; it would have been closer to what I really liked doing (and ended up doing anyway). But as career advice? There's certainly a need for more in the trades, but we won't attract more people into them until trades get more respect and pay half-decently. And where are the apprenticeships?

Been on a big construction site lately? It seems preferable to simply admit more immigrants with trade skills and low wage demands. You can see the faces change as the next wave of immigrants replaces the current ones who started asking for better money and conditions.

Yes, it did last many years. Europe and Japan needed to be rebuilt and their adult work force drastically thinned out (USA to a smaller extent was thinned out). At the time, there was no major industrialized base comparable to what we had in N. America. Add in the Marshal Plan and other Cold War projects spurring work...

Yes, correlation is a fact. Bee's make honey is a fact. Without some comprehension of why, sharing random facts doesn't mean anything...It's not a question of if it's "OK". As competing industrial bases came back online and built up and new ones developed in other areas...and yes after 20-30yrs new adult workers came online, going back to that golden age of the 50-60's where a kid with an 8th grade education could go out and make the modern equivalent of $100k (exactly what my Father-in-Law did) is unrealistic. It's a great gig if you can get it but not a good plan for the future.

By the 70's, Boomers were quickly inflating the available labor pool and those other industrialized powers were largely back online...supply and demand had shifted back and wages for unskilled labor started shifting. Unions enacted delaying actions but that had the unfortunate effect of driving industry overseas and spurring automation (some of this would have happened eventually but it sped it up).

As far as some secret govt plan to avoid a revolt at a time of immense patriotism...occam's razor would suggest you are over complicating things.

The skilled trades pay quite well but our school system has built a self reinforcing approach of pushing education for education's sake. Of course, when you say this, those in the education system call you out as being anti-education.

I work in construction and I do agree that lack of enforcement is allowing low skill manual labor to be taken over by illegal aliens and undercutting wages. We should increase enforcement as it's limiting options for kids who aren't suited to higher education and I believe that is pushing many into further education that just leaves them deep in debt with no real potential for a career based on that education.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

I'm confused, wouldn't they be competing against other unscrupulous capitalists in a capitalist economy? They wouldn't be competing against socialist or communist businesses in a capitalistic economy. Sounds like a victim justification by saying that if corporation X hires illegal immigrants to drive down production costs than I have been forced to do the same to remain competitive, so you should forgive me, or allow the same. ???? I'm not speaking of corporations moving production ofshore to take advantage of cheaper labor. I'm speaking about blatent abuses of civil imigration laws. They all speak about how they want an end to illegal imigration yet they enable it to improve their bottom line. Talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Watching too many movies where the righteous owner stands up and refuses to bow to pressure...followed by a stirring string of unrealistic victories.

It's insanity to expect your average business owner to destroy his business and leave his family homeless. It may be morally right but it's not going to happen.

Now if the entire playing field is made level, you don't create this moral quandary.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's not a question of if it's "OK".

Well, yes it is; it's the acid test of progress. Are prospects generally better for our kids than they were for us? If not, something's broken. We've robbed from their future to enrich ourselves today.

As far as some secret govt plan to avoid a revolt at a time of immense patriotism...occam's razor would suggest you are over complicating things.

Not my explanation; I just found it interesting. So the better financial prospects happening at a time of immense patriotism... just coincidence?

The skilled trades pay quite well but our school system has built a self reinforcing approach of pushing education for education's sake. Of course, when you say this, those in the education system call you out as being anti-education.

The trades in general pay... ok, but not usually buy a yacht ok. To do really well in trades, you need to be at the top of a particularly difficult or scarce trade, and/or work buckets of overtime... or start a business. Most trades take a greater toll on your body, leading to problems later in life if you don't later change careers or take early retirement. And there's still a significant stigma to blue collar work, to go with the lower pay. It's still undeniable that degrees bring earning power. And prestige.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

The trades in general pay... ok, but not usually buy a yacht ok. To do really well in trades, you need to be at the top of a particularly difficult or scarce trade, and/or work buckets of overtime... or start a business. Most trades take a greater toll on your body, leading to problems later in life if you don't later change careers or take early retirement. And there's still a significant stigma to blue collar work, to go with the lower pay. It's still undeniable that degrees bring earning power. And prestige.

You must not deal with many in the skilled trades. The ones I work with make really good money...as in $80-120k base pay.

With overtime or starting a business, they blow away your average college degree holder.

Physical problems are usually more associated with unskilled labor...as are unemployment and lower wages.

Of course, your link oversimplifies. A college education in a useless major won't gain you near as much income or protection from unemployment and a skilled trade will gain you far more income and protection from unemployment relative to an unskilled laborer.