Cruising is quite safe

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I suspect the number of reported incidents are extremely low given the vast number of small (open power) boats on inland waters with nary a USCG boat or office in sight.

Yes, as noted earlier, the accident data is unreliable, and likely significantly understated. But as also noted, the mortality associated with boating events are highly reliable. Which is why I only focus on the death column.

Originally Posted by boatpoker

In Canada I have worked with two municipal and one provincial marine police division on marine projects, none of them report pleasure craft incidents to Transport Canada or the Transportation Safety Board ... unless they are front page newsworthy or involve celebrities. Commercial incidents are another matter altogether.

Is reporting a legal requirement in Canada? I haven't seen this anywhere, but you would know better. It is a legal requirement in the USA. Of course, there are lots of laws people ignore.

I just wonder why they don't require insurance companies to report this data to the USCG. People might ignore the law, but they rarely ignore expensive damage. This would seem an easy way to improve the data.


ADD: Gord to the rescue. So again, it if a legal requirement, why not collect that data at the insurance company level?

I bet it doesn't happen much because few people know it is a requirement.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Of course, sailing within the USA where the USCG is based is probably much safer than most other places simply due to the fact we do have the Coast Guard, Tow Boat US, and Sea Tow almost everywhere. Though we do have some pretty rugged cruising areas like in Alaska or Down East Maine, but those areas are less frequented too. When I was younger I sailed up to Labrador and back and we were on our own for the most part, other than an occasional local boat we might see. Plus, it was rocky, fogbound, almost no buoys, there was ice, and at times we sailed off of the available charts at the time. I like to imagine that people who sail off to places where help will be unavailable are more self-sufficient and won't need outside assistance if something goes wrong, but I have run into a lot of people who seem to depend on luck to stay safe. Of course some of those accidents that do happen will never be reported. Like shark attacks, most boating accidents occur where most boaters are, and that's also where they will most likely be reported. But, I can't say that I know well anyone who has perished while cruising. The worst accidents have been some pretty nasty injuries: mangled hand while anchoring, broken leg slipping on the boat, etc.

Ha... you're talking and describing my cruising grounds . OK, not quite Labrador (yet), although I sail just south of that, and have come within a few miles of the Big Land's shore. Maybe next season... although there is still so much to explore up here on the Northern Peninsula of Newfoundland.

But on your major point, I suppose having infrastructure to deal with accidents actually helps prevent them, or at least make them worse. Call Tow Boat before your grounding turns into a hole in your hull. More law enforcement helps prevents accidents... That sort of thing? Maybe...

[Kettlewell]

But on your major point, I suppose having infrastructure to deal with accidents actually helps prevent them, or at least make them worse. Call Tow Boat before your grounding turns into a hole in your hull. More law enforcement helps prevents accidents... That sort of thing? Maybe...

I think it is the fact you can call for help and have it there often within minutes, meaning a grounding or sinking or engine failure is less likely to result in a fatality. Also, having other boaters around means hopefully someone will help out. When in you're in Newfoundland or some atoll in the South Pacific you might not have anyone to help.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I think it is the fact you can call for help and have it there often within minutes, meaning a grounding or sinking or engine failure is less likely to result in a fatality. Also, having other boaters around means hopefully someone will help out. When in you're in Newfoundland or some atoll in the South Pacific you might not have anyone to help.

True... which is partly why I like being in Newfoundland . You understand the attraction, since you've been here .

[Kettlewell]

True... which is partly why I like being in Newfoundland . You understand the attraction, since you've been here .

Yes! Spectacular country. We were on a mission to get to Labrador so didn't get to cruise much of Newfoundland, but I have hitchiked from the north all the way to Halifax. We sailed as far north as Cape Mugford, north of Nain. Where do you keep your boat?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yes! Spectacular country. We were on a mission to get to Labrador so didn't get to cruise much of Newfoundland, but I have hitchiked from the north all the way to Halifax. We sailed as far north as Cape Mugford, north of Nain. Where do you keep your boat?

Wow! That's some impressive waters up there. Serious cruising .

I'm based in Lewisporte these days. I did sail out of Corner Brook for a few years, but sailed over to the NE side just before Covid struck (via the northern route). We lost a few years in there, so we're just getting back to exploring this side of the Island.

Come on back up. The place is amazing, and completely uncrowded. I rarely share an anchorage with anyone. Heck, outside the immediate bay, I rarely see another recreational boater.

[sailingharry]

[QUOTE=Mike OReilly;3841557It is a legal requirement in the USA. Of course, there are lots of laws people ignore.

I just wonder why they don't require insurance companies to report this data to the USCG. People might ignore the law, but they rarely ignore expensive damage. This would seem an easy way to improve the data.


ADD: Gord to the rescue. So again, it if a legal requirement, why not collect that data at the insurance company level?

I bet it doesn't happen much because few people know it is a requirement.[/QUOTE]
Sort of a corollary to your comments. I am an American, and I "know" it's a requirement to report accidents. As I mentioned up-thread, leaving Montreal last summer (18 months ago), I hit a wall and caused $30K in damages. Until this thread, it never even occurred to me that I was supposed to report it. US and Canadian laws are sufficiently similar that it would have been reasonable for me to at least look into it. It would have been reasonable for me to ask in the US on my return if they cared (it happened out of country, but on a US flag boat). But truly, it never even crossed my mind. I certainly didn't "ignore it." And I think I'm at least average knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility. Hah!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Sort of a corollary to your comments. I am an American, and I "know" it's a requirement to report accidents. As I mentioned up-thread, leaving Montreal last summer (18 months ago), I hit a wall and caused $30K in damages. Until this thread, it never even occurred to me that I was supposed to report it. US and Canadian laws are sufficiently similar that it would have been reasonable for me to at least look into it. It would have been reasonable for me to ask in the US on my return if they cared (it happened out of country, but on a US flag boat). But truly, it never even crossed my mind. I certainly didn't "ignore it." And I think I'm at least average knowledge, intelligence, and responsibility. Hah!

I think this is why it is best to focus on the mortality figures in these reports. There are lots of ways to miss accident data, but whenever there's a body, there is nearly-automatic ways this gets reported and tracked.

[GordMay]

According to U.S. federal law, you must submit a written boating accident report for accidents that meet the following criteria:
There is boat or property damage of $2,000 or more.
A boat involved in the accident is destroyed.
Someone sustains injuries that require medical attention.
➥ https://www.progressive.com/answers/...boat-accident/
➥ https://uscgboating.org/recreational...-reporting.php

State Boating Contacts ➥ https://www.nasbla.org/about-nasbla/boating-contacts

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think this is why it is best to focus on the mortality figures in these reports. There are lots of ways to miss accident data, but whenever there's a body, there is nearly-automatic ways this gets reported and tracked.

Unless there is no body.

OK boating deaths within a country will be reported to the coroner etc.

Bit of an aside, some years ago I had a read of the 'Coroners's Year Book' for the state of Victoria, Australia.Yes , honest, there is such a thing. Let me tell you there are some pretty weird ways you can end up dying.

If a single hander heads off from Panama for FP and doesn't turn up do the authorities in FP either know nor care?
If he has no family? Even if he has family? And what happens next - wait seven years until he can be declared dead?

[Kettlewell]

If a single hander heads off from Panama for FP and doesn't turn up do the authorities in FP either know nor care?
If he has no family? Even if he has family? And what happens next - wait seven years until he can be declared dead?

Maybe one or two singlehanders disappear every decade or so, but I suspect 95% of them have friends or relatives that do notify authorities and eventually that person would be declared dead, though I suspect they wouldn't show up in the Coast Guard statistics. Frankly, I don't think singlehanding is particularly dangerous. Those that do it a lot tend to become very good sailors and know how to stay safe. I met a bunch of them back in the day in Newport when several singlehanded races started and finished there. They become very good cat nappers, able to sneak 10 minutes of sleep here and there, and able to wake instantly when needed. In any case, there are so few long-distance singlehanded sailors that they won't sway the statistics one way or another

[LakeSuperior]

We had a many page discussion specifically on estimating the "real" risk of dying crossing the Atlantic in a sailboat.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ic-272934.html

Based on order of magnitude estimates I came up with a risk factor that it is 3.8 times higher than getting killed in a car accident.

However, there are relatively few boats crossing the Atlantic compared with coastal cruising. Hence I think the overall risk of dying while sailing is significantly lower making cruising a pretty safe lifestyle.

[Kettlewell]

Based on order of magnitude estimates I came up with a risk factor that it is 3.8 times higher than getting killed in a car accident.

Interesting thread and guestimates, but you have to admit the actual numbers are so vague and small as to be meaningless. Plus, with sailing just like driving you can do a huge number of things to not become a statistic.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Based on order of magnitude estimates I came up with a risk factor that it is 3.8 times higher than getting killed in a car accident.

Yes... which as you know LS, was highly disputed in that thread. Speculation based on a small collection of anecdotal events is far too biased and limited to draw any conclusion. In comparison, we have a large database of quality data mortality data, for US controlled waters.

[sailingharry]

A couple of comments were made up thread about international travel. In the case of a solo sailor, it's hard for anybody to report.
But what about a crewed event? Someone gets lost overboard (dying on board is a whole 'nother kettle of fish!). Do you report it to your home country? Do you report it to the country you arrive at? Given the variables of country policies, do you shop for a favorable destination country (I could imagine an incident where one country would throw you in jail and another country would dismiss it as the risks of sailing).
Thinking about these kinds of incidents is certainly uncomfortable, but it is a critical part of being prepared.