Want To Buy: 36ft + Cruiser to live aboard and upgrade to circumnavigate

[digitalnomad]

My wife and I are currently looking for a boat to call home . With that in mind, we are looking at boats 36 feet and above. We would like to ask you all what advice you have on buying a boat in the current global crisis.

As we are looking to move into the boat straight away we are ready to buy immediately. So sellers are responding immediately to our inquiries and seem very eager to drop prices as much as 75%.

Here is a list of the kinds of boats we have found so far.
2001 - 2004 | Beneteau 393 - Oceanis 430 | 16k - 10k Euros
2000 - 2003 | Bavaria 340 - 50 | 9k - 30k Euros
1998 - 2002 | Jeanneau 10m - 14m | 12k - 24k Euros

I would really love your feedback on where in the world the better deals are found?

Can we actually make a deal and collect in those locations?

Should we hold off a few more months as new strains of the virus continue to upset countries and increase the levels of lockdowns (the UK as an example)?

Which boat would you recommend as a live-aboard for 2021?

[SteveSpring]

I'm surprised that sellers are dropping their asking prices that much. Certainly, here in the UK it has been a seller's market this year as more people had to stay in their home country and many seemed to be buying boats. The local brokerage said they were very short of stock to sell.

[chrisr]

plenty of rumours that it's a sellers market here in australia as well (btw,it's easy for seller to drop his price if the boat was way over priced to begin with)

best place to buy will depend on where you are at (which notice you are keeping secret)

btw, imho catamarans are far and away the best boat to live-aboard...

cheers,

[Dogscout]

Why are you focusing on boats from around 2000? Is your reason price driven? All of those production boats are going to need work to become a live-aboard. Remember that those types of boats were never built to become full time residences they were vacation homes or RV's at best and your selection is already 20 years old. Rigging, sails, engine, electronics are all due for a lot of work if they are to be relied upon full time. Mattresses, and interior upholstery is all likely to be past its use and style.

Where are you looking? You speak about length in feet and price in Euros! Where is this boat going to be documented and what kind of sailing experience and documentation do you have? This will also affect cost in relation to you ability to insure the boat and local legal issues for licensure and tax.

My opinion is that there are many more of the boats that you have on your list in the MED than the US. Given the covid situation you may have trouble getting there if you are ready right away.

But hey I'm just an American living on my boat in Greece right now.

[digitalnomad]

When in Mexico the boats we saw were all hunkered down as we had three hurricanes and a tropical storm.

I saw only a couple of European boats out there. One, for instance, was a Bavaria 36ft sitting in Isla Mujeres which I think was under 10k euros.

I mix meters and feet as I am from the UK and having lived in Spain for 15 years I quote in Euros, which is just by habit.

Sailing experience:

Never owned a boat but I was raised in Cumbria, UK. My sailing started in Newcastle with dingies and the odd crewing at the weekends. The only formal qualification is my RYA Day Skipper and the European license which I did a few years ago. I have sailed as a crew around the Mediterranean from Spain to Italy and all the islands in between. In miles, I would say around 1000 over the past 10 years. So I would class myself as a competent crew, and very aware of my limitations. The furthest I have sailed on a crossing is 175 miles from Spain to Ibiza. On the return, we had 35nt winds and interesting seas which was a nice introduction to reefing the main at night.

Our budget is very tight at the moment. We are looking for a starter boat that we can hop around the islands or coastal areas. Slowly gaining experience as we seek cheap anchorage (I hear Greece is very good for that). If we stayed on shore we could live for 12k a year for accommodation, so it would be awesome to invest that 12k into a boat instead of giving that away.

Documentation and taxes etc. is something I know very little about. I have heard some gruesome stories about tax on arrival to home countries. Not sure how a UK passport holder living from time to time in Spain (As a resident) will need to work all of that into the equation.

I mention mainly European boats as that is really the experience I have with boats when doing my research. I am sure there are some amazing US boats sitting in south America (which seems to be accessible to fly to).

Thanks so far to all that have replied. Some interesting thoughts.

[capn_billl]

I replaced my mattresses with memory foam from Walmart.

A sharp big knife with a little lubricant, and it goes like butter.

It only took 5 minutes to get an exact duplicate of the weird petal shaped bed, and is very comfortable.

[Gingersnap]

Have you talked to liveaboards or visit any of them? For the two of us, we live in a 36’ Catalina sailboats for the last 5 years as part of our downsizing due to market and cost of living.: Finding a slip is challenging in marinas which may or may not accept liveaboard. Most marinas have length size requirement. Our marina now requires 40’ but we were grandfathered in. If our Harbormaster change out, we could be kicked out. Next, spacing is challenging, even with the basics. The forward place is filled with personal and tool items and the transom place is filled with boat and emergency items. This left us with a 10x8 living space and it was challenging for us to move, sleep, eat, and bathroom. It is like Chinese checker in moving items around and then putting it back every time. I am a very good organizer in making use of soft material lunch bags from target and labeling them for our shelves such as DVDs, computer equipment, bread, medicine, you get the idea. We took out our settee to make room for storage cabinets since we usually use the couch/bed for eating, sleeping, and watching TV. It took us the first year to get use to the small space and then it is okay. If things get out of hand, it drives me nuts and that can bring the worst out of my personality. For cabin fever, we put in enclosure for our cockpit so we can enjoy outdoor and additional space in bad or good weather. Be sure to give each other space and listen for any ideas to improve limited space. Best wishes.

[Gingersnap]

And we sail about once a week. We are turning into fair weather sailors because we are older. When out sailing, we keep in mind for safety because this is our only home, not just a pleasure craft. Be safe and enjoy sailing in freedom.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

I replaced my mattresses with memory foam from Walmart.

A sharp big knife with a little lubricant, and it goes like butter.

It only took 5 minutes to get an exact duplicate of the weird petal shaped bed, and is very comfortable.

Agreed- IKEA mattresses work very well ~ use a ceramic butchers knife, and mind the hull curvature.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Why are you focusing on boats from around 2000? Is your reason price driven? All of those production boats are going to need work to become a live-aboard. Remember that those types of boats were never built to become full time residences they were vacation homes or RV's at best and your selection is already 20 years old. Rigging, sails, engine, electronics are all due for a lot of work if they are to be relied upon full time. Mattresses, and interior upholstery is all likely to be past its use and style.

Where are you looking? You speak about length in feet and price in Euros! Where is this boat going to be documented and what kind of sailing experience and documentation do you have? This will also affect cost in relation to you ability to insure the boat and local legal issues for licensure and tax.

My opinion is that there are many more of the boats that you have on your list in the MED than the US. Given the covid situation you may have trouble getting there if you are ready right away.

But hey I'm just an American living on my boat in Greece right now.

Yeah! You can’t live aboard a 20 year old production boat! They’re garbage! My Catalina 42 MK2 actually sunk just now as I was typing this! Damn. Looks like I need to find a new home- hope I can locate something as comfortable and seaworthy....😛

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by Sofa King Fishy

Yeah! You can’t live aboard a 20 year old production boat! They’re garbage! My Catalina 42 MK2 actually sunk just now as I was typing this! Damn. Looks like I need to find a new home- hope I can locate something as comfortable and seaworthy....😛

You are missing my point, maybe you should re-read what I said. Slowly this time and you will realize that nowhere did I say it was not seaworthy.

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

[digitalnomad]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

You are missing my point, maybe you should re-read what I said. Slowly this time and you will realize that nowhere did I say it was not seaworthy.

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

... 2007 Catalina 309 ... is that worth anything today?

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

... 2007 Catalina 309 ... is that worth anything today?

Digital Nomad; It may be a wonderful boat. If it was taken care of, maintained and not left to decay. You could sit two of them side by side and have completely different boats.

EX: I bought a 2007 Hanse 430. It had been barely used for 8 years by its previous owner. All canvas and lines left out in the sun was rotten. There was some mold inside. The electronics were shot because of corroded wiring, teak was dry and cracked.

In the same marina was its sister. Maintained and sailed a few times a month. Owners washed and oiled the teak, had the same set of electronics that all worked. Sails were stored off season. This was a much nicer boat.

I'm retired and have time and money to mess with mine so it fills my day. Ive replaced a bunch of stuff and added things like heat, but in the end both of the boats above are worth about the same.

I've done the this old house thing when I was younger and then it was something I enjoyed, dicking with an older boat may bring you joy.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

I'm sure you could come up with an example but I've never seen particle board furniture on a cruising boat. Maybe an old fresh water house boat.

20yr old electronics...even gold platters will be badly dated, so no advantage there.

Mold doesn't discriminate...gold platting can get just as moldy.

High end sails and rigging are more likely to have a short lifespan compared to simple cruising sails.

All boats need upkeep and care. Other than being more shiny (which on a 20yr old boat is more about maintenance).

There are reasons to consider higher end boats but the items you point out don't support it and certainly at the OPs price point, he's going to struggle to find a higher end model that isn't a total POS. Of course, at his price point, even the mass produced boats are likely to be a POS.

[boatman61]

Ahh.. But even $1000 'pieces of §)(1t' without an engine can be sailed around the world..
As is often quoted.. "it's not the boat, it's the person manning it that matters"..
I have delivered a couple or three boats that many here would class with the above for thousands of miles.. perfectly seaworthy, just not shiny with all the bells n whistles.