Want To Buy: 36ft + Cruiser to live aboard and upgrade to circumnavigate

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

There is a correlation between boat size and length of time living aboard. The bigger the boat the shorter the time. Smaller boats are cheaper and easier to maintain and also much easier for a small crew to handle.

If I were considering a livaboard future I would seek an older, heavier boat with a long keel. But with upto date equipment and new sails, rigging and engine. And a new comprehensive survey.

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...so... living on a bigger boat shortens ones lifespan?

[digitalnomad]

Originally Posted by Sofa King Fishy

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...so... living on a bigger boat shortens one's lifespan?

I love statistics

I think that there is a very large community of liveaboards that have chosen to sail the world on boats <=35ft. The economical aspect of sustainability makes sense. For some purchases, prices can nearly double between 11 and 12 meters.

The 36-45ft owners probably should charter a boat as probably the statistics show that they spend little time sailing. Over time life changes and sailing the same stretch of water, simply loses its luster. There are a small few that make a business from their boat as skippered charter.

45ft+ well I have no idea about them

So in an ideal world, we would be all sailing 36ft aluminum boats.

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by Sofa King Fishy

Yeah! You can’t live aboard a 20 year old production boat! They’re garbage! My Catalina 42 MK2 actually sunk just now as I was typing this! Damn. Looks like I need to find a new home- hope I can locate something as comfortable and seaworthy....😛

You are missing my point, maybe you should re-read what I said. Slowly this time and you will realize that nowhere did I say it was not seaworthy.

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

[digitalnomad]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

You are missing my point, maybe you should re-read what I said. Slowly this time and you will realize that nowhere did I say it was not seaworthy.

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

... 2007 Catalina 309 ... is that worth anything today?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

There is a correlation between boat size and length of time living aboard. The bigger the boat the shorter the time. Smaller boats are cheaper and easier to maintain and also much easier for a small crew to handle.

If I were considering a livaboard future I would seek an older, heavier boat with a long keel. But with upto date equipment and new sails, rigging and engine. And a new comprehensive survey.

I think you are confusing correlation with causation.

I have a strong suspicion if you look at average age, big boats will have been bought disproportionately by older folks.
- 65yr olds even if everything goes great are likely to liveaboard for only a few years before they simply can't physically do it (even on a bigger more comfortable boat) but if they've been out working and saving for the last 45yrs, they can afford a big boat with all the luxuries...keeping in mind the care and feeding even of a used one will be much higher.
- Your average 30yr old likely has a much smaller nest egg and is far less likely to have a retirement income stream, so they will typically buy a smaller boat both because it's cheaper to buy and cheaper to keep up. But at 30yr old, if they enjoy the lifestyle, there is a good chance they have decades of cruising ahead of them.

Unless you are immediately heading offshore and planning to push hard doing lots of long passages with little local cruising...I wouldn't go for an old full keel boat. For a similar size, it's simply not as comfortable for liveaboard and for coastal cruising. If it's going to be a few years before you even think of going offshore, better to get a boat for what you are doing now and change IF and when you decide to go offshore. By then you will have a much better idea of what you want in a boat and realistically, most talk about but never actually go offshore, so why saddle yourself with a boat that is not as suitable for the cruising you are actually doing.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Production boats were built to a price point and the equipment, furniture, and finish is less than that of the higher end boats. Its the same as homes, cars and just about everything. You can live aboard but there are lots of things that are going to need attention 20 years on. Humidity wrecks particle board furniture, sandwich construction doors, and electronics. Mold gets everywhere. Sails and rigging are at the end of useful life at 20 years old. I think that the OP needs to appreciate that based on the discussion of cost of living.

I'm sure you could come up with an example but I've never seen particle board furniture on a cruising boat. Maybe an old fresh water house boat.

20yr old electronics...even gold platters will be badly dated, so no advantage there.

Mold doesn't discriminate...gold platting can get just as moldy.

High end sails and rigging are more likely to have a short lifespan compared to simple cruising sails.

All boats need upkeep and care. Other than being more shiny (which on a 20yr old boat is more about maintenance).

There are reasons to consider higher end boats but the items you point out don't support it and certainly at the OPs price point, he's going to struggle to find a higher end model that isn't a total POS. Of course, at his price point, even the mass produced boats are likely to be a POS.

[molump]

If you can find one look at a Cabot Cutter. 36’ and blue water. They only produced 50 or so but an exceptional boat.

[boatman61]

Ahh.. But even $1000 'pieces of §)(1t' without an engine can be sailed around the world..
As is often quoted.. "it's not the boat, it's the person manning it that matters"..
I have delivered a couple or three boats that many here would class with the above for thousands of miles.. perfectly seaworthy, just not shiny with all the bells n whistles.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think you are confusing correlation with causation.

I have a strong suspicion if you look at average age, big boats will have been bought disproportionately by older folks.
- 65yr olds even if everything goes great are likely to liveaboard for only a few years before they simply can't physically do it (even on a bigger more comfortable boat) but if they've been out working and saving for the last 45yrs, they can afford a big boat with all the luxuries...keeping in mind the care and feeding even of a used one will be much higher.
- Your average 30yr old likely has a much smaller nest egg and is far less likely to have a retirement income stream, so they will typically buy a smaller boat both because it's cheaper to buy and cheaper to keep up. But at 30yr old, if they enjoy the lifestyle, there is a good chance they have decades of cruising ahead of them.

Unless you are immediately heading offshore and planning to push hard doing lots of long passages with little local cruising...I wouldn't go for an old full keel boat. For a similar size, it's simply not as comfortable for liveaboard and for coastal cruising. If it's going to be a few years before you even think of going offshore, better to get a boat for what you are doing now and change IF and when you decide to go offshore. By then you will have a much better idea of what you want in a boat and realistically, most talk about but never actually go offshore, so why saddle yourself with a boat that is not as suitable for the cruising you are actually doing.

Brilliantly stated. Narrow beam, deep keels & tight spaces work very well when balling across oceans. Not so much day to day. For most of us, early live aboard lifestyle translates to ‘still working’ and comfort is paramount! As we’re honing our craft one weekend or week at a time- Not necessarily at the expense of seaworthiness...my C42 Mk2 is extremely comfortable day to day, and still holds an “A” Blue Water rating when the time comes. Costa Rica & the Med are just 48 months away!

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

... 2007 Catalina 309 ... is that worth anything today?

Digital Nomad; It may be a wonderful boat. If it was taken care of, maintained and not left to decay. You could sit two of them side by side and have completely different boats.

EX: I bought a 2007 Hanse 430. It had been barely used for 8 years by its previous owner. All canvas and lines left out in the sun was rotten. There was some mold inside. The electronics were shot because of corroded wiring, teak was dry and cracked.

In the same marina was its sister. Maintained and sailed a few times a month. Owners washed and oiled the teak, had the same set of electronics that all worked. Sails were stored off season. This was a much nicer boat.

I'm retired and have time and money to mess with mine so it fills my day. Ive replaced a bunch of stuff and added things like heat, but in the end both of the boats above are worth about the same.

I've done the this old house thing when I was younger and then it was something I enjoyed, dicking with an older boat may bring you joy.

[BarryB]

PLEASE Slow down hunting for a "bargain". Talk to 2 or 3 nearby Yacht Brokers about your experience and Objectives. Buy a boat with GOOD RESALE Reputation in your Market locale, Good Chance you might want to move Up or Out in 3 years or so and this is an Investment for sure. Forget timing market ups and downs get some experience Living Aboard slow down to cruising speed. Beneteau engineering seems good and reliable. Shopping for your boat can be Fun and VERY EDUCATIONAL. Buy a
boat model that Brokers KNOW and can Recommend since you are not really a good judge of FINANCIAL and FLOATING RISKS! Enjoy the search.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by BarryB

PLEASE Slow down hunting for a "bargain". Talk to 2 or 3 nearby Yacht Brokers about your experience and Objectives. Buy a boat with GOOD RESALE Reputation in your Market locale, Good Chance you might want to move Up or Out in 3 years or so and this is an Investment for sure. Forget timing market ups and downs get some experience Living Aboard slow down to cruising speed. Beneteau engineering seems good and reliable. Shopping for your boat can be Fun and VERY EDUCATIONAL. Buy a
boat model that Brokers KNOW and can Recommend since you are not really a good judge of FINANCIAL and FLOATING RISKS! Enjoy the search.

“Investment” 😂

[kreavis]

Did you find a boat? We have a Freedom 45 for sale.

[kreavis]

I think many of the boats people are "unloading" are boats that are in or have been in charter. The charter market tanked with the pandemic.

Charter boats can be well used. Something to keep in mind. They are also not always outfitted to truly live aboard. Saying that, there are probably some pretty good deals out there if you are willing to take the time and spend the "tens of thousands" needed to bring something up to snuff. FYI we are selling a 45 Foot Center Cockpit boat here in Florida for 167500.00