Want To Buy: 36ft + Cruiser to live aboard and upgrade to circumnavigate

[digitalnomad]

Fantastic information. Many thanks to everyone.

Just to clarify, I stated the if I stayed in the Med as an AirBNB sailer it would cost me about 12k. So to clarify, that is not my budget, I just would rather put 12k into a boat in say repairs and maintenance.

I am listening to your messages about charter yachts. Which is my background.

• I see that in the US the Catalina 30 is super popular and very affordable.
• The Contessa 32 depending on the year.
• The Contessa 26 being the single-handed world traveler (Seems a little too small for a couple).
• Islander 36 seems popular but from what I can tell they stopped production in 1986. The layout also seems tight on the forward cabin. I would prefer a toilet you can use while your partner is sleeping
• Pearson 34 seems fine, pricing around the 10-20k Euros, and they seem to hold there value on resale. The layout seems fine, with lots of variations. The keel might be a worry.
• There is a Cal 34 in La Paz for US$ 25,000. My wife loves white interiors.
• The Hunter 32+ looks interesting, lots of production and for 20k Euros there are plenty to choose from.

From what I can tell from my own limited research. For 30k euros, it is possible to own a safe and comfortable boat. Depending on the route that could be a 10k purchase with 20k repair or a 20k with 10k repair, or 25k with 5k repair .... what is probably clear no matter what the sale price, there is always going to be at least 2k-5k worth of repairs ...

So plan A would look something like this:

1. Find boat
2. Check if there are any outstanding debts or taxes
3. Survey boat
4. Make the list of repairs
5. Make the list of required upgrades
6. Price everything up (different marinas and countries will make this vary greatly).
7. Find a marine lawyer to help process the transaction correctly.
8. Negotiate repairs as part of the sales process.
9. Then sail into the great blue yonder

.

This might be an interesting 2021

[Sailorichiban]

Where do you see great deals in the Philippines?
I haven’t seen any

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Up till now that had no impact. That’s not the case from 11pm tomorrow HMRC have already laid out the conditions etc.

If you were to do that after Brexit you will need to import the boat immediately it hits eU port, ie pay vat.

Furthermore you are overlooking one simple fact..
If I buy one of the many UK Flagged boats that are scattered along the Atlantic coast and around the Med that will be classed as VAT paid because they are in EU ports come midnight Brussels time I can flag it what I want with no VAT due.. all I need is documented proof from the seller.. eg a marina bill whatever.
If I buy in the UK that's another matter.

[Steamer]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

Here is a list of the kinds of boats we have found so far.
2001 - 2004 | Beneteau 393 - Oceanis 430 | 16k - 10k Euros
2000 - 2003 | Bavaria 340 - 50 | 9k - 30k Euros
1998 - 2002 | Jeanneau 10m - 14m | 12k - 24k Euros

Its is very likely these exactly boats at stated numbers never exist.
Just be careful.

[rcolesny]

One of my first choices would be the Waucquiez Pretorien. Check John Kretschmer's book.

[starminx]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

My wife and I are currently looking for a boat to call home . With that in mind, we are looking at boats 36 feet and above. We would like to ask you all what advice you have on buying a boat in the current global crisis.

As we are looking to move into the boat straight away we are ready to buy immediately. So sellers are responding immediately to our inquiries and seem very eager to drop prices as much as 75%.

Here is a list of the kinds of boats we have found so far.
2001 - 2004 | Beneteau 393 - Oceanis 430 | 16k - 10k Euros
2000 - 2003 | Bavaria 340 - 50 | 9k - 30k Euros
1998 - 2002 | Jeanneau 10m - 14m | 12k - 24k Euros

I would really love your feedback on where in the world the better deals are found?




Can we actually make a deal and collect in those locations?

Should we hold off a few more months as new strains of the virus continue to upset countries and increase the levels of lockdowns (the UK as an example)?

Which boat would you recommend as a live-aboard for 2021?

Hej there,
It depends of course what you want and can spend, but for living aboard I personally would go for other more sturdy constructions and certainly not for a Bavaria. It also very much depends where and if you plan to sail. The bigger the boat the less mistakes you are allowed to make and the more practice seamanship is required from the crew and skipper. I am a live aboard for 12 years now and ended up in Denmark. Should you wish to talk to me you are always welcome. Am a technical practical guy with quiet a bit of general sailing boat experience. You can contact me via the site norskblueflamme.com
Regards, Willem

[capn_billl]

I replaced my mattresses with memory foam from Walmart.

A sharp big knife with a little lubricant, and it goes like butter.

It only took 5 minutes to get an exact duplicate of the weird petal shaped bed, and is very comfortable.

[Gingersnap]

Have you talked to liveaboards or visit any of them? For the two of us, we live in a 36’ Catalina sailboats for the last 5 years as part of our downsizing due to market and cost of living.: Finding a slip is challenging in marinas which may or may not accept liveaboard. Most marinas have length size requirement. Our marina now requires 40’ but we were grandfathered in. If our Harbormaster change out, we could be kicked out. Next, spacing is challenging, even with the basics. The forward place is filled with personal and tool items and the transom place is filled with boat and emergency items. This left us with a 10x8 living space and it was challenging for us to move, sleep, eat, and bathroom. It is like Chinese checker in moving items around and then putting it back every time. I am a very good organizer in making use of soft material lunch bags from target and labeling them for our shelves such as DVDs, computer equipment, bread, medicine, you get the idea. We took out our settee to make room for storage cabinets since we usually use the couch/bed for eating, sleeping, and watching TV. It took us the first year to get use to the small space and then it is okay. If things get out of hand, it drives me nuts and that can bring the worst out of my personality. For cabin fever, we put in enclosure for our cockpit so we can enjoy outdoor and additional space in bad or good weather. Be sure to give each other space and listen for any ideas to improve limited space. Best wishes.

[Gingersnap]

And we sail about once a week. We are turning into fair weather sailors because we are older. When out sailing, we keep in mind for safety because this is our only home, not just a pleasure craft. Be safe and enjoy sailing in freedom.

[Nicholson58]

I suggest you consider searching around the Great Lakes. Boats operate only short seasons, fresh water. Rigs and hulls have never seen salt. There may be no cruising infrastructure but that means yours will all be new. Check out Torresen Marine in Muskegon, Michigan.

https://torresen.com/boat-sales/brokerage-department/

There are boats sold at marinas, yacht clubs, etc. Chicago must have hundreds of possibilities and Milwaukee has a huge sail in community. Small marinas along the Michigan coast always have listings.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Why are you focusing on boats from around 2000? Is your reason price driven? All of those production boats are going to need work to become a live-aboard. Remember that those types of boats were never built to become full time residences they were vacation homes or RV's at best and your selection is already 20 years old. Rigging, sails, engine, electronics are all due for a lot of work if they are to be relied upon full time. Mattresses, and interior upholstery is all likely to be past its use and style.

Where are you looking? You speak about length in feet and price in Euros! Where is this boat going to be documented and what kind of sailing experience and documentation do you have? This will also affect cost in relation to you ability to insure the boat and local legal issues for licensure and tax.

My opinion is that there are many more of the boats that you have on your list in the MED than the US. Given the covid situation you may have trouble getting there if you are ready right away.

But hey I'm just an American living on my boat in Greece right now.

Yeah! You can’t live aboard a 20 year old production boat! They’re garbage! My Catalina 42 MK2 actually sunk just now as I was typing this! Damn. Looks like I need to find a new home- hope I can locate something as comfortable and seaworthy....😛

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Up till now that had no impact. That’s not the case from 11pm tomorrow HMRC have already laid out the conditions etc.

If you were to do that after Brexit you will need to import the boat immediately it hits eU port, ie pay vat.

Furthermore you are overlooking one simple fact..
If I buy one of the many UK Flagged boats that are scattered along the Atlantic coast and around the Med that will be classed as VAT paid because they are in EU ports come midnight Brussels time I can flag it what I want with no VAT due.. all I need is documented proof from the seller.. eg a marina bill whatever.
If I buy in the UK that's another matter.

Again the flag has no bearing , it’s the establishment status of the beneficial owner

If you are uk tax based and buy a uk flagged boat , in the eu, vat paid pre brexit in the uk, then yes it can be flagged anywhere in the eu

The trouble is once you leave EU waters the boat is instantly exported from the EU. (Irrespective of EU registration status )

Eu tax residents can avail of EU RGR relief to bring the boat back into the EU without any further issue. ( within 3 years )

A uk tax resident does not get that opportunity. The boat can now only return under the temporary admissions procedure , requiring it to leave the EU again each 18 months. Furthermore technically , though difficukt to prove the boat no longer enjoys EU VAT paid status

Vat “ status” is always “ lost “ immediately on export, the issue is RGR is not available to a uk resident post brexit

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Again the flag has no bearing , it’s the establishment status of the beneficial owner

If you are uk tax based and buy a uk flagged boat , in the eu, vat paid pre brexit in the uk, then yes it can be flagged anywhere in the eu

The trouble is once you leave EU waters the boat is instantly exported from the EU. (Irrespective of EU registration status )

Eu tax residents can avail of EU RGR relief to bring the boat back into the EU without any further issue. ( within 3 years )

A uk tax resident does not get that opportunity. The boat can now only return under the temporary admissions procedure , requiring it to leave the EU again each 18 months. Furthermore technically , though difficukt to prove the boat no longer enjoys EU VAT paid status

Vat “ status” is always “ lost “ immediately on export, the issue is RGR is not available to a uk resident post brexit

Once again you totally miss what I said..
Any boat in the UK today is VAT liable once it enters the EU unless it was in an EU port on the night GB left the EU.. so if I buy a boat that was in Poole Harbour on the night the UK finally left and sail her to Portugal I am liable for VAT or taking her to Tangier at least once every 12 to 18mths to reset the clock.
However if I buy a UK registered boat that was in the EU the said night of transition that boat is considered VAT paid..
Registration is irrelevant.. however I would still pop into Tangier at least once a year..
Also.. I bought a French registered boat in the Caribe and sailed it back to Europe and it was regarded as VAT paid.. mind that was 2000 and a different time politically.

[Sofa King Fishy]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

I replaced my mattresses with memory foam from Walmart.

A sharp big knife with a little lubricant, and it goes like butter.

It only took 5 minutes to get an exact duplicate of the weird petal shaped bed, and is very comfortable.

Agreed- IKEA mattresses work very well ~ use a ceramic butchers knife, and mind the hull curvature.

[Bill_Giles]

There is a correlation between boat size and length of time living aboard. The bigger the boat the shorter the time. Smaller boats are cheaper and easier to maintain and also much easier for a small crew to handle.

If I were considering a livaboard future I would seek an older, heavier boat with a long keel. But with upto date equipment and new sails, rigging and engine. And a new comprehensive survey.