Want To Buy: 36ft + Cruiser to live aboard and upgrade to circumnavigate

[digitalnomad]

My wife and I are currently looking for a boat to call home . With that in mind, we are looking at boats 36 feet and above. We would like to ask you all what advice you have on buying a boat in the current global crisis.

As we are looking to move into the boat straight away we are ready to buy immediately. So sellers are responding immediately to our inquiries and seem very eager to drop prices as much as 75%.

Here is a list of the kinds of boats we have found so far.
2001 - 2004 | Beneteau 393 - Oceanis 430 | 16k - 10k Euros
2000 - 2003 | Bavaria 340 - 50 | 9k - 30k Euros
1998 - 2002 | Jeanneau 10m - 14m | 12k - 24k Euros

I would really love your feedback on where in the world the better deals are found?

Can we actually make a deal and collect in those locations?

Should we hold off a few more months as new strains of the virus continue to upset countries and increase the levels of lockdowns (the UK as an example)?

Which boat would you recommend as a live-aboard for 2021?

[SteveSpring]

I'm surprised that sellers are dropping their asking prices that much. Certainly, here in the UK it has been a seller's market this year as more people had to stay in their home country and many seemed to be buying boats. The local brokerage said they were very short of stock to sell.

[chrisr]

plenty of rumours that it's a sellers market here in australia as well (btw,it's easy for seller to drop his price if the boat was way over priced to begin with)

best place to buy will depend on where you are at (which notice you are keeping secret)

btw, imho catamarans are far and away the best boat to live-aboard...

cheers,

[Dogscout]

Why are you focusing on boats from around 2000? Is your reason price driven? All of those production boats are going to need work to become a live-aboard. Remember that those types of boats were never built to become full time residences they were vacation homes or RV's at best and your selection is already 20 years old. Rigging, sails, engine, electronics are all due for a lot of work if they are to be relied upon full time. Mattresses, and interior upholstery is all likely to be past its use and style.

Where are you looking? You speak about length in feet and price in Euros! Where is this boat going to be documented and what kind of sailing experience and documentation do you have? This will also affect cost in relation to you ability to insure the boat and local legal issues for licensure and tax.

My opinion is that there are many more of the boats that you have on your list in the MED than the US. Given the covid situation you may have trouble getting there if you are ready right away.

But hey I'm just an American living on my boat in Greece right now.

[deltaten]

Hold your cash and patience. Do not be fixated on makes or years. Many are the real blue water livaboards; those with actual international waters passed under the keel, that pop up here for sale , at mostly quite reasonable prices too.

I urge patience and research. It is often said here that you should not have a schedule to keep if you sail. I would suggest the same for the purchase.

[digitalnomad]

When in Mexico the boats we saw were all hunkered down as we had three hurricanes and a tropical storm.

I saw only a couple of European boats out there. One, for instance, was a Bavaria 36ft sitting in Isla Mujeres which I think was under 10k euros.

I mix meters and feet as I am from the UK and having lived in Spain for 15 years I quote in Euros, which is just by habit.

Sailing experience:

Never owned a boat but I was raised in Cumbria, UK. My sailing started in Newcastle with dingies and the odd crewing at the weekends. The only formal qualification is my RYA Day Skipper and the European license which I did a few years ago. I have sailed as a crew around the Mediterranean from Spain to Italy and all the islands in between. In miles, I would say around 1000 over the past 10 years. So I would class myself as a competent crew, and very aware of my limitations. The furthest I have sailed on a crossing is 175 miles from Spain to Ibiza. On the return, we had 35nt winds and interesting seas which was a nice introduction to reefing the main at night.

Our budget is very tight at the moment. We are looking for a starter boat that we can hop around the islands or coastal areas. Slowly gaining experience as we seek cheap anchorage (I hear Greece is very good for that). If we stayed on shore we could live for 12k a year for accommodation, so it would be awesome to invest that 12k into a boat instead of giving that away.

Documentation and taxes etc. is something I know very little about. I have heard some gruesome stories about tax on arrival to home countries. Not sure how a UK passport holder living from time to time in Spain (As a resident) will need to work all of that into the equation.

I mention mainly European boats as that is really the experience I have with boats when doing my research. I am sure there are some amazing US boats sitting in south America (which seems to be accessible to fly to).

Thanks so far to all that have replied. Some interesting thoughts.

[mvweebles]

Certainly explains the OP's statement that he is seeing a 75% reduction in asking price. He is not in the same hot/heavy seller's market many are in. He's at the bottom end where sellers are trying to off-load a boat to avoid months of slip payments.

Rio Dulce is the Mecca for this type of search.

Peter

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by deltaten

Hold your cash and patience. Do not be fixated on makes or years. Many are the real blue water livaboards; those with actual international waters passed under the keel, that pop up here for sale , at mostly quite reasonable prices too.

Also, don't get fixated on blue water. For coastal cruising, what are typically labeled "blue water" boats are typically worse for living aboard and cruising. A coastal boat is perfectly fine for coastal cruising.

My concern with the boats you are listing are that they are bottom of the barrel boats. At $10k, you can likely expect to spend several times that to get the boat up to a liveable/functional condition. The reason they are ready to jump at a 75% reduction is the boat is likely not worth 25% of the asking price and slip fees for another year are more than the boat is worth, so they just want out from under it.

If you do follow thru on your plan, please, do yourself a favor and buck up the $600-1000 for a surveyor. No guarantees they will catch everything but I can pretty much guarantee with no experience, you will miss a lot.

[boatman61]

I would like to know where he is seeing these prices for boats this age..
Certainly not in Europe or the UK.. I spend a lot of time browsing Apollo Duck and have a daily update from Inautica of the latest boats up to €20K and short of floating disasters I see nothing younger than 30 to 50 yrs old.

[digitalnomad]

I have not heard about "Rio Dulce" but I have been looking around Panama for any bargains.

Getting a survey would be a great idea.

I have been suggested that Malta would be the ideal place to register the boat. Does anyone have any experience in that. I know that Spain is just collapsed at the moment. To register our marriage in Spain was going to take over a year. To be honest I think that it is really time to change residency ...

[mvweebles]

Knowing sailing and cruising routes would help. There are common end-of-the-line destinations where cruising dreams die. I have a good sense of north America places like Rio Dulce, and La Paz (Baja MX, pacific coast). Isla Mujeres is only 400 nms from Florida and similar in costs, so doubtful this is a cruising dream graveyard. Panama might be.

If/when you're ready, get a metaphorical briefcase of cash and head to a place like Rio. You will almost assuredly find the bargain you seek that has been neglected but in retrievable condition with some considerable elbow grease.

Peter

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

I have not heard about "Rio Dulce" but I have been looking around Panama for any bargains.

Getting a survey would be a great idea.

I have been suggested that Malta would be the ideal place to register the boat. Does anyone have any experience in that. I know that Spain is just collapsed at the moment. To register our marriage in Spain was going to take over a year. To be honest I think that it is really time to change residency ...

Well if your buying on that side of the pond and sailing her across (shipping would cost more than what your looking to pay for a boat) I would suggest you pay the VAT (currently 18%) in the Azores, a simple quick process and get Portuguese residency, a great country and the Algarve is a great base with several good anchorages along its 75nm or so of coastline.
If you can get UK Part 1 Registration with a family member to act as your 'agent' I would opt for that as EU reg is very "strings attached" in comparison and nipping to Gib or Tangier for a night or 3 every 18mths to reboot is no hardship unless you just want a marina queen.

[valhalla360]

double post

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

I have not heard about "Rio Dulce" but I have been looking around Panama for any bargains.

Expect a lot of derelict mold coated boats. It's a humid tropical climate and a lot of the boats left behind are just that...left behind.

If you were an old salt, I might agree, you could find a diamond in the rough but with the costs and complications of buying remotely from thousands of miles away, I would be looking closer to home.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by digitalnomad

I know that Spain is just collapsed at the moment. To register our marriage in Spain was going to take over a year. To be honest I think that it is really time to change residency ...

If your wife is from the Far East, Thailand, Cambodia, Phillipines etc you will find this very hard to do if not impossible in the EU.
A French friend of mine spent years trying to get his Cambodian bride into Europe and tried many countries.. even ended up trying Tunisia as a last resort as he could then base in Sicily/Greece for any required returns to Tunisia from time to time.. same liveaboard idea.
You would have better luck in the UK where there's a much more liberal approach though that usually comes with 5yrs residence before citizenship and passport.