NMEA 2000 over WiFi ?

[JPh63]

Hi,


I use an N2K0183 multiplexeur and OpenCPN 5.8.4 on a Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 Lite and laptop. All boat's devices are NMEA 2000.
No problem to recieve NMEA 0183 sentences over Wifi, multiplexeur convert NMEAs 2000 PNG. And dashboard show them.

But I would like having native PNGs over WiFi. I can send them from N2K0183, I tried three formats possible, without success with OpenCPN :

1. SeaSmart ($PCDIN format, OK over WIFI and Signal K) -> $PCDIN sentences are shown but no data in dashboard with Galaxy Tab and Laptop. $PCDIN sentences examples : <GREEN> (TCP:192.168.4.1:1024) $PCDIN,01F113,00CB6E9E,80,004193FDFF00FFFF*2F<0x0D ><0x0A>
   <GREEN> (TCP:192.168.4.1:1024) $PCDIN,01F805,00CB6EA1,7F,00174D0888DE18005047E5C1 D75606542F995111266B00C05916340000000010FC005A00AA 001013000000*50<0x0D><0x0A>
   <GREEN> (TCP:192.168.4.1:1024) $PCDIN,01FA04,00CB6EAA,7F,00FF090AFF0E1FC9540B0000 0000F20C2224719B5C1200000000F20DF40CDB62480D000000 00F20FA21CAC78D80E00000000F211AE0F5C1FD00700000000 F21339192133F00A00000000F217510E88AE681000000000F2 1839373919E40C00000000F219450C37A0D80E00000000F2*2 E<0x0D><0x0A>
   <GREEN> (TCP:192.168.4.1:1024) $PCDIN,01F010,00CB6EAB,7F,00F0174D0888DE18*26<0x0D ><0x0A>
2. ActisenseT (clear text) -> Nothing, blank window, no data in dashboard. With Galaxy Tab and Laptop.
3. ActisenseB (Actisense binary, ok over USB with laptop) -> Laptop : Nothing, blank window, no data in dashboard. Galaxy tab : red lignes, error message, no data in dashboard. Error line : <RED> (TCP:192.168.4.1:1024) !<0xFA><0xA8><0x10><0x02><0x93><0x13><0x02><0x12>< 0xF1><0x01><0xFF><0x80>#<0xFA><0xA8><0x10><0x02><0 x93><0x13><0x03><0x13><0xF1><0x01><0xFF><0x80>% ....

Do you have any idea?

[nohal]

OpenCPN 5.8 does not support NMEA2000 over IP, only serial and SocketCAN. Exactly for the reason you show, there are many formats, none of them being a standard. Some of them will highly likely be implemented in 5.10, the decision which still has to be made though.

[JPh63]

Thank you Nohal for your response. So I will wait...

[bdbcat]

And while WholyBee is probably watching...


What say you to the preferred N2K/Ethernet format of choice?


Let's dig into this. I have an Actisense N2k/Ethernet gateway, and have built an OCPN comm driver for it. I can get data in Actisense format. All very well.


But the question still is: "What non-industry-accepted interface should we adopt for OCPN? And what are the hardware implications of that?"



Thanks
Dave

[stevead]

Aarrgghhhh.......

Multiple choices,
1. Chetco/Seasmart protocol: Enacpsulating NMEA 2000 binary data in NMEA 183 proprietary sentences.

$PCDIN,01F802,000C8286,09,3AFC8CCA0500FFFF*58

2. ASCII Raw: I think supported by both Actisense & Yacht Devices. Need to do some "weird" things to extract the PGN.

00:34:02.718 R 15FD0800 FF 00 01 CA 6F FF FF FF

3. Actisense Raw: Similar to the Actisense EBL binary protocol, but formatted as text.

93130201f801ff05436da40008ead9b222c75c590dde

3. Actisense N2K: A new Actisense protocol.

A173321.107 23FF7 1F513 01 2F 30 70 00 2F 30 70 9F

4. ASCII N2K, similar to Actisense N2K, but fast messages are re-assembled

I think the Javascript plugin would be a good intermediate solution to supporting the Chetco/Seasmart protocol. Tony is currently adding NMEA 2000 support, so should be easy to parse the ASCII encoded binary data. Just receive all NMEA 183 sentences with the '$PCDIN' prefix, parse them, construct the NMEA 183 sentences and send.

And it seems like you have already developed a driver for the Actisense N2K format.

Have fun choosing.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by bdbcat

And while WholyBee is probably watching...


What say you to the preferred N2K/Ethernet format of choice?


Let's dig into this. I have an Actisense N2k/Ethernet gateway, and have built an OCPN comm driver for it. I can get data in Actisense format. All very well.


But the question still is: "What non-industry-accepted interface should we adopt for OCPN? And what are the hardware implications of that?"



Thanks
Dave

Either the Actisense or the Yacht Devices. It doesn't matter much to me. I think it is perfectly acceptable to tell users "This is the N2K Ethernet device we support."

Perhaps the Actisense version, because Yacht Devices might be receptive to add that to a future firmware. I doubt Actisense would be so receptive.

Is your driver in the github repository and can I build it?

[bdbcat]

wholybee...
Hardware is no problem.
It is the on-the-wire protocol that must be decided. Steve's list is pretty exhaustive.
Any thoughts on that? Compatibility, etc...?



Dave

[bcn]

Is there any documentation or even code concerning OneNet, what should be the "official version" of NMEA for N2K on Ethernet?

[cas206]

<choke>... I thought $666 dollars for N2K standard was ridiculous, but $2000/$4000 for OneNet!?


I image the OP asking "What did I step in?"

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by bcn

Is there any documentation or even code concerning OneNet, what should be the "official version" of NMEA for N2K on Ethernet?

The problem with OneNet, aside from the cost of documentation (and I think buying it requires an NDA which prevents it from being used Opensource) is that no one else is using it either.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by bdbcat

wholybee...
Hardware is no problem.
It is the on-the-wire protocol that must be decided. Steve's list is pretty exhaustive.
Any thoughts on that? Compatibility, etc...?



Dave

It doesn't matter to me. But as I said, I think Yacht Devices would be very receptive to implementing something that you asked them to. If you went with the Actisence driver you have already started with, I bet a few emails to Yacht Devices, and they would start working on adding that to their products.

That is just my gut feeling from a few interactions with them. It might be worth an email to support. I bet you could talk one-on-one with a developer there.

Thank you for moving forward on this. It is very much appreciated.

[bcn]

Originally Posted by wholybee

The problem with OneNet, aside from the cost of documentation (and I think buying it requires an NDA which prevents it from being used Opensource) is that no one else is using it either.

Well, this is so since 2012....


Onwa sells products with OneNet, Actisense is promoting/commenting it(?), but I have not seen any product.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by bcn

Well, this is so since 2012....


Onwa sells products with OneNet, Actisense is promoting/commenting it(?), but I have not seen any product.

Until one of Raymarine, Navico, and Garmin commit to it, OneNet is a dead end. Raymarine has RayNet, and I assume Navico and Garmin have similar proprietary systems. I'm not sure these companies want interoperability.

[stevead]

Could also add the Shipmodul format:

$MXPGN,01F112,2807,FC7FFF7FFF168012*11

Re OneNet, can also add to the previous comments, to the best of my knowledge only Onwa is shipping a product that supports OneNet, however from my last communications with them it seems they are awaiting final certification.

Thanks for reaching out. Yes KM-8 supports OneNet but currently the certification is still under processing.

Bit silly of us, as we could have got a pre-release copy of the OneNet standard for "free" up until the final release of the OneNet certification tool. However "free" meant also being a paid member of NMEA!

[Scubacat]

Can I add my “two pennies worth?” - As one of the developers of the N2K0813 multipexer conversion codes, Luis and I discussed quite a lot of options for what we call “RAW” protocols for sending unconverted N2K over WIFI.

The two Actisense (text and binary) conversions are included in our code because example code exists in the superb Timo Lappinen git hub sources. And I find using the Binary version essential when using the Actisense PC application as a test tool. But we have not encoded the reverse (RAW >N2K) codes as they presented some issues we have not overcome.

But my personal preference is for the $PCDIN coding that you call the “Chetco/Seasmart protocol”. My reason for preferring this is that the conversion BOTH ways is relatively straightforward. (And we have now implemented that in the very latest N2K0183 code).
There is a small issue that the $PCDIN can be very large - much bigger than ‘legal’ NMEA0183. But this can usually be accomodated relatively easily.

Our most recent test code now allows sending N2K AIS messages (As $PCDIN Seasmart) and then decoding it back to N2K on a second network. The only drawback I can see to SeaSmart is that the original data “Src’ is currently lost when the message is reconstructed (and the large size of soe AIS messages when translated).

If someone were to write an (eg) autopilot control in OPENCPN that sends out $PCDIN for the appopriate N2K commands, then it should work with the N2K0183 multiplexer..
(In the same way that the Raymarine Seatalk commands can be sent to a NMEA3WIFI or other bidirectional Seatalk<>WIFI multiplexer using the $STALK ‘conversion’. )




( PS I was unaware of the ‘chetco’ link, and perhaps someone can educate me please!)