Seasickness, Fear & anxiety

[winjamerk]

to roque2021; some thoughts-
Your sailing comments appear to lean toward nervousness when others are in charge of the vessel, but, unless I'm wrong, not when you are kite-surfing. My thoughts as a sailor suggest that you need to learn to sail ALONE in the same conditions as you kite surf, ideally on a keel boat. Also note that you are standing while kiting and, perhaps not much while with others on sail boats. If you'll note, kite-surfing standing gives your whole body experience with the water, waves, bouncing, turning, and your inner ear and eyes provide a visual & physical body balance experience that matches what you see as sea-state and, you react- [it is making sense]- whereas while sitting, not steering, someone else making adjustments, does not. I believe you need to put yourself in charge, alone and get enough experience doing that as you can. If your club has some vessels you can single-hand while standing at wheel or tiller, go out alone often. You will learn a lot! Oh, and always avoid very slow motoring where the wind is from astern and fumes come back into the cockpit. Just some thoughts. No meds involved if you can begin a process of elimination and really want to know what will work. Small steps. Keep at it, Well worth the effort.

[Vitis01]

I'm another anxiety induced sea-sicker. Scopolamine and sometimes a Xanax are my offshore routine. The Xanax I take is mostly for my wife. I can be a real ******* when I'm anxious about a sail.
I had a TERRIBLE experience with Odansetron/Zofran which my doctor was excited to prescribe me because it was "new" and "the best". It turns out that it is widely known to sailors and doctors that actually sail that Zofran should be avoided.

[merrydolphin]

I am an American. First I must say that I was just in Spain about a month or so ago. You have the most wonderful costal cities. Very clean, neat, quaint and artistic with amazing architecture. And very safe and secure compared to the USA. The people were so lovely and accepting of my poor Spanish. My wife and I sat at a cafe and had a little lunch and cappuccino. We had a very nice conversation with 2 couples at the table next to us. When we went to pay and leave, the waiter said “oh no they paid for your lunch” ! I just loved Spain.

Now to the seasickness. I am a charter boat and ferry boat captain, and an ocean sailboat instructor. In all of Europe there is a medication available that seems to work VERY well. It is called Stugeron (Cinnarizine). Of course check with you doctor first. And start with a low dose. For the most part, it does not have the side effects of other medications. And of course don’t drink alcohol with it.
I am not a doctor and am just going by the hundreds of my passengers and students that have had very good luck with it. I particularly remember one lady on a charter that I picked up on the island of Bequia and said down wind in a near gale to the Tobago keys. Oh my, she was soooo sick and miserable. When we got to the Tobago Keys, (about 30 miles), we anchored behind a little sand island. I gave her a stugeron, put her ashore with a friend and a hand held VHF. And told her not to leave the land for at least 1-2 hrs. She then came back aboard. Despite the rolly anchorage, no problem. The next day we sailed back AGAINST the near gale. She was standing at the mast (with safety harness), spray coming over the whole boat. Yelling Yahoooo! She loved it. There was that much difference. Also my wife swears by it and after a couple of days or so at sea, she tappers off of it and is then fine. The main thing is as with many meds for this, you should take it BEFORE you go to sea. At least an hour. These are experiential observations from a life time at sea; I am not a medical professional.
Again, check with your DR and start with a low dose. And on stable ground or calm protected port.
Hopefully this will help the fear and anxiety as being sea sick or even fearing being very sick is a very bad and miserable situation. Best of luck and……I will return to Spain!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Mlp48

I have been to several Safety at Sea seminars and they once had a PhD who was said to be an expert on motion sickness. He said, "the more fit you are.. the worse your motion sickness may be". More ice cream, Mom !

A good example of a highly-educated moron.
Fitness level has absolutely no bearing on motion sickness.

[alitaptap]

I have been sailing for 30 years (longest non-stop voyage 1500 miles), and only experienced “seasickness” once – on an overnight race from Manila Yacht Club to Subic Bay Yacht Club via the Capones Islands, but on that occasion I put it down to the rum and coke so liberally concocted by our crew chief . . . celebrating, he said, in advance of the finish because we were definitely in the lead and placed to win by a large margin.


Having said that “anxiety” is another story. I have suffered anxiety on almost every long, off-shore adventure as the first night approaches. Anxious for what reason I cannot identify . . . is it too many stories of disasters at sea? the fury of unknown sea monsters? Possibly. Or, is it simply a fear of the unknown in the dark void as the sea surface turns from inviting blue to blackened oil? Someone here suggested it was too much adrenaline – that's another possibility.


What I have found is that, when as skipper or crew, so long as I can establish a routine wherein my watch hours start before the first break of dawn then by the time the sun rises over the horizon I am cured and the following nights hold no anxiety. I just have to get through that first night.


Actually, there was one other occasion when anxiety struck: in the aftermath of helming over a rouge wave, over 80-feet to its crest. It was 3.00am, about 150 miles out of Hong Kong, we were five aboard a 47-foot ferro-cement yacht and I imagined our sturdy but tiny (by comparison) yacht being rolled and lost forever (concrete does not float!), we were pushed beam-on by the boiling wave crest, tilted at beyond 90 degrees by the wave (the spreader was touching the water), for perhaps 200 meters such that the yacht came to a complete stop (no forward momentum and no helm) . . . I fully expected the wave's partner (big waves always come in twos I thought) to arrive and the anxiety of waiting for that moment lasted hours; until daybreak. The wave's partner never came, such is the nature of the rogue wave.

[SuW]

Lots of good advice here (except the person who said seasickness is a mental thing).
.
I'm told that when there is a major difference between what your eyes see, and what your balance organs, in the ear, detect, your body thinks you've been poisoned - vomiting seems to be the result. It's a normal reflex.
Also various forms of vertigo are common, especially BPPV especially as we age (there is a therapy called the Epley maneuver that can help manage this, but I digress).

As a child I got car sick. I still cannot read a book in a moving car. I get seasickness and I have developed BPPV. These are probably not coincidences.
Seasickness is horrible. Also, some people have a phobia of vomiting, which can make it much worse.

My solution is dramamine pills and suppositories(!). Also keep drinking water or bland fruit juice so the taste in your mouth is not so bad. When sick, I carry a water bottle and a cup with a lid to heave into. Sigh. Keep working.

Get something to do, like navigating or steering the boat. Sit on deck in the wind and look at the horizon (fasten your safety harness to the boat. You are wearing your safety harness above deck, aren't you?) Avoid strong greasy smells (like lasagna cooking on the stove, or diesel fumes). Try to avoid listening to other people puking as this can set you off as well.

Once I start to get seasick, the first signs for me are a headache and mild nausea. Then immediately before the first vomiting attack, a rush of saliva in the mouth. You must get to the rail or over something impervious to fluid or you will be wiping up puke from the carpet. If you make someone else do it you will not be popular. (Fortunately no serious cruising boats have carpeting.)

If you are like me, you will vomit a number of times until you have emptied your stomach. Then you will vomit some more. And more. For me it's every 10-20 minutes. It is exhausting, but do not give up, try to serve your watches. The danger here is of dehydration. Once my stomach is empty, I carry around a bottle of water and a large cup with a lid. The cup is for vomiting into (nothing much left inside so it is big enough) the bottle is for taking a few swigs whenever I can bring myself to.

With practice you can almost work normally for 19 minutes out of 20. Not pleasant (for others either), but it will pass.

Strangely enough chewing hard on something very salty or spicy does seems to help. You don't have to swallow it just get the strong flavour and get your jaw working hard. I have chewed licorice root, salted Chinese preseved ginger, beef jerky, dried tamarind and they all help. Perhaps it helps massage your inner ear or something! It certainly relieves the awful taste of stomach acid etc.

Good luck!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Fear and anxiety are not the same thing as seasickness however, they are commonly thought to be one in the same...

Does the nausea cause the anxiety, or does the anxiety (of sea-sickness) cause the nausea, or is it some of both?

Originally Posted by Chotu

... I should point out that Dramamine is actually a good over-the-counter solution to everything you mentioned above. It’s not good for staying alert, however, it will fix the upset stomach and Dramamine is actually what they give you when you go to the hospital to calm you down anyway. That drug has a 1-2 punch. It gets rid of motion sickness and it sedates the person that takes it. So, it’s perfect for this situation actually...

Dimenhydrinate (marketed as Gravol in Canada and Dramamine in the United Kingdom and the United States - Driminate, Triptone, Hydrate, Dramoject, Dymenate, DMH, Wal-Dram, Motion Sickness Relief) is an over-the-counter (OTC) antihistamine, indicated for the prevention and relief of nausea and vomiting, from a number of causes. It is an H1 receptor antagonist, that demonstrates anticholinergic activity.

Abuse of dimenhydrinate has been reported, and often involves ingestion of high doses, to induce psychotropic effects, including hallucinations and euphoria.

Psychiatric patients may also abuse dimenhydrinate, to achieve an anti-anxiety effect.

In addition to frank abuse, OTC medications, including dimenhydrinate, may be misused, when taken in higher doses, or for a longer duration than indicated on the product monograph. Potential for drug dependence is also a concern, in situations of dimenhydrinate abuse or misuse. Given these potential risks, some jurisdictions have chosen to store and sell dimenhydrinate under pharmacist supervision; however, it is available without any restrictions in other jurisdictions.

The purpose of this report is to identify the recent clinical evidence on the potential misuse or abuse of dimenhydrinate, in order to inform decision making regarding appropriate access to this drug within the pharmacy.
More ➥ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26985532/

There are numerous contraindications for it's use. Talk to your Doctor, not me, nor any other internet know-it-all (I confess).

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by SuW

Lots of good advice here (except the person who said seasickness is a mental thing).
...

Get something to do, like navigating or steering the boat. Sit on deck in the wind and look at the horizon (fasten your safety harness to the boat. You are wearing your safety harness above deck, aren't you?) Avoid strong greasy smells (like lasagna cooking on the stove, or diesel fumes). Try to avoid listening to other people puking as this can set you off as well.

While I agree that seasickness isn't an "it's all in your head" sort of thing; other than your vestibular system (inner ear) is literally located "in your head", I do firmly believe the management of seasickness can largely be accomplished as a "mental thing." Your second paragraph, I quoted, endorses that concept.

[Philip Thearle]

Hi Folks! Referencing a previous post...here's what I learned on a motorcycle trip thru Europe in 2007. The story; About to get on the ferry from Liverpool to the Isle of Man for the centenary of the worlds preeminent motorcycle road race, I stopped to fuel up prior to boarding. A spontaneous side-trip, I was unprepared for my life-long nemesis, the dreaded Mal De Mer.
I asked the old gent behind the counter if they had any Dramamine? He replied with a stony glare as follows; "Nah, me n me brudder fingered tha' oot about seventy year ago! We stoofed a wadda chew in one ear...'course we cleaned up our act when they came oot wif bum fodder!"
Hmmm...inner-ear imbalance?! Anyway, I got situated on the gigantic catamaran car ferry and as we exited the channel heading out into the Irish Sea, here came the swells quartering across our port bow...shortly followed by a wave of nausea brought on by the sickening double-hump movement.
I put in one of my foam earplugs and glory be, within a minute or two I had zero symptoms!
I apologize for the 'short story, long' but of the dozens upon dozens of motion sickness sufferers I've told this to...both maritime and on the hard, only two reported back of limited success.
SO...before you run to your medicine cabinet or tourniquet collection, next time TRY THIS!!

[doctorbill]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Anxiety. Carvidilol. Holy crap, I've never experienced anything like it. First time to take it your anxiety is gone. It's a miracle.

This is a beta blocker and could be very dangerous for a type 1 diabetic to take.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Roque2021

Good morning to everyone



I hope you all are great, I am a newly in the forum from Spain.



It takes me to write this some time, as sometimes I feel ashamed, but probably my love for sailing is bigger than the EGO



I like sailing and anything to do with the sea in general, I work on digital marketing for the marine industry and sail on a sailing club with a Sun Odyssey 36I



I suffer from seasickness, I know it's not a problem at all, but I make it a problem, as when I start to feel bad or I know the sea state is not going to be flat, I have some anxiety and then o completely block myself and I want to come back to port.



Is an experience really hard to control, on top of that I am diabetic with type 1, I do not want to be sick because the insulin and carbohydrates when I vomit decompensated my blood sugars, so I try to retain it?



I have the opportunity to sail different boats from clients but most of the days I say no, as I do not want to mess other people days at sea, or be scared of something happen



I do kitesurfing, and I can go with 2 meters waves and 26/30 knots of wind and no problem, but in the boats is a different history, saying this I would like to know what some of you can tell, I know 70 % is my head, but I do not know how to solve it, some people said to go out as much as I can, but fear and anxiety are bigger than my dreams, and I really want to change it.



So any recommendations, any therapist how can help with sea issues…



Many thanks to all for reading this… I wish you a fantastic week

Maybe sailing is not your thing?

[gulfislandfred]

Tums!
I know it sounds too simple, but I've tried the prescription and non prescription remedies, and tums (or generic brand) works for me. Take one or two at the first sign of queasy. More as needed. More than three or four, and you might be constipated next day. Eat beets for that.

[bermynick]

Everyone posting here [so far I've read] is talking about meds. To me seasickness is usually [yes] about stress and anxiety, but on a simpler level it's physiology and digestion.
Lay down a foundation before you get offshore; oatmeal for example. I've been sick once in 25,000 miles of blue water; when you set off with and empty stomach your bile is just slopping around with nothing to do but make you sick.
Another staple is peanut butter and bacon sandwiches.
There's always chicken noodle soup and ginger but to me your stomach will always be worse with no 'gut luggage'

[Hendrik fiji]

I think that your headline is correct but you may not feel it. Possibly something in the subconscious , a fear of leaving land.
As a child I used to get conic seasickness. My parents built boats and sailed.
At 17 I started working on a fishing boat and from that day I have never ever felt even the slightest bit seasick and I went on to be a captain delivering boats ect and sailing my own boats. In my case it was cured permanently without drugs.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by Philip Thearle

...
I asked the old gent behind the counter if they had any Dramamine? He replied with a stony glare as follows; "Nah, me n me brudder fingered tha' oot about seventy year ago! We stoofed a wadda chew in one ear...'course we cleaned up our act when they came oot wif bum fodder!"
Hmmm...inner-ear imbalance?! Anyway, I got situated on the gigantic catamaran car ferry and as we exited the channel heading out into the Irish Sea, here came the swells quartering across our port bow...shortly followed by a wave of nausea brought on by the sickening double-hump movement.
I put in one of my foam earplugs and glory be, within a minute or two I had zero symptoms!
I apologize for the 'short story, long' but of the dozens upon dozens of motion sickness sufferers I've told this to...both maritime and on the hard, only two reported back of limited success.
SO...before you run to your medicine cabinet or tourniquet collection, next time TRY THIS!!

Definitely worth trying, thanks!