Seasickness, Fear & anxiety

[Chotu]

God, I love Carvidilol. Ha ha ha.

Whatever it blocks, it changed my life for the better. I never knew what it was like to feel normal until last year.

Key to drugs: take as little as you possibly can to get the therapeutic effects. That minimizes any problems.

I am on 3.125 mg carvidilol. The smallest little tiny pill you could ever imagine. The smallest dose they make. It’s absolutely perfect. I don’t have a single side effect except feeling at ease. Previously, I always felt tense. I always felt crazy in a way. Crazy focus and worry on every little thing in life. Then when I went too hard? Full blown panic attacks that sideline you for hours at a time v

Of course the drug works for me because I needed it. If you just take it and you didn’t have the anxiety in the first place all the time, it’s probably going to sedate you. With me, the drug gets used up doing the right thing to make me normal. So don’t put the drug down. It’s not the drug. It’s the application. The drug is a miracle for me. But if you don’t need it, it’s not going to work for you.

I have always done the same thing with diphenhydramine. Benadryl. I take a half if it looks like it’s going to be really rough that day. About 12.5mg. That seems to avoid most of the groggy feeling and gets rid of most of the stomach issues. Small dose. Otherwise I just look at the horizon and try to get that vestibular stuff working properly. Those weird glasses from TikTok seem like they would work pretty well for the nausea part of things. For me, nausea give me anxiety. So in the sense of seasickness, it’s a bad feedback loop. A lot like the OP.

However, I think carvidilol would block the feedback loop because the anxiety wouldn’t happen. Just nausea. Which is a joy compared to anxiety

[rsementi]

I think it’s TMS, Tension Myositis Syndrome identified by Dr. Sarno. His books focus on how fear, anger, anxiety can induce back pain, stomach pain, skin rashes and even seasickness. Your brain can induce pain and sickness so severe, that it requires you to avoid the very thing that is causing your anxiety, therefore avoiding the topic that you fear, have anger towards etc. I have used his methods to reduce my back pain to almost zero. Here is a list of ideas that I keep in my iPhone notes to remind me of what to think, what to say to myself when I have back pain, or if my skin breaks out. It helps me recover within 24 hrs, sometimes immediately:

1. The pain (or seasickness) is due to TMS, not to a structural or physical abnormality.
2. The direct reason for the pain (seasickness) is mild oxygen deprivation (or nausea).
3. TMS is a harmless condition, caused by my repressed emotions.
4. The principal emotion is my repressed anger, fear or stress.
5. TMS exists only to distract my attention from the emotions.
6. Since the pain is basically normal, there is nothing to fear.
7. Therefore, physical activity is not dangerous.
8. And I must resume all normal physical activity.
9. I will not be concerned or intimidated by the pain.
10. I will shift my attention from pain to emotional issues.
11. I intend to be in control- not my subconscious mind.
12. I must think psychological at all times, not physical.

Say these things to yourself and be honest or it won’t work.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

I'll just leave this here and stop responding; "what he essentially said was that most seasickness can be controlled without drugs, something I agree with".

That doesn't say I disagree with anyone's choice to use drugs, now does it?

You should just stop responding, because you're adding nothing to this conversation.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by rsementi

I think it’s TMS, Tension Myositis Syndrome identified by Dr. Sarno. His books focus on how fear, anger, anxiety can induce back pain, stomach pain, skin rashes and even seasickness. Your brain can induce pain and sickness so severe, that it requires you to avoid the very thing that is causing your anxiety, therefore avoiding the topic that you fear, have anger towards etc. I have used his methods to reduce my back pain to almost zero. Here is a list of ideas that I keep in my iPhone notes to remind me of what to think, what to say to myself when I have back pain, or if my skin breaks out. It helps me recover within 24 hrs, sometimes immediately:

1. The pain (or seasickness) is due to TMS, not to a structural or physical abnormality.
2. The direct reason for the pain (seasickness) is mild oxygen deprivation (or nausea).
3. TMS is a harmless condition, caused by my repressed emotions.
4. The principal emotion is my repressed anger, fear or stress.
5. TMS exists only to distract my attention from the emotions.
6. Since the pain is basically normal, there is nothing to fear.
7. Therefore, physical activity is not dangerous.
8. And I must resume all normal physical activity.
9. I will not be concerned or intimidated by the pain.
10. I will shift my attention from pain to emotional issues.
11. I intend to be in control- not my subconscious mind.
12. I must think psychological at all times, not physical.

Say these things to yourself and be honest or it won’t work.

Apologies for my bluntness, but as noted above, I think this would fall into either the hand waving or witchcraft bins. There is no good evidence this even exists. Even if you were inclined to believe it, it was primarily about back pain, not motion sickness.
As was said in the (perhaps apocryphal) snarky book review: "This is interesting and novel. Unfortunately, what is novel is not interesting, and what is interesting is not novel."

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Key to drugs: take as little as you possibly can to get the therapeutic effects. That minimizes any problems.

Sage advice for all medications!

[Moana Bella]

I have a friend who is seriously prone to motion sickness and she swears by the antihistamine Phenergan.
As for the anxiety - why not try a good hypnotist?
My partner finally quit smoking after 40 years and a million tries, after 2 visits to a hypnotist. Seriously - can't hurt, might help.

[lestersails]

Phenergan is promethazine, a serious drug. Prescription only and you might have some challenges finding a doc to prescribe it to you. It can definitely be effective for the nausea associated with motion sickness. To give you an idea of its potency, it is used to treat nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy drugs. You have to be careful with it as it has significant sedation as a common side effect. Insomnia is an indication for this drug - that tells you how common sedation is. It has less common but more severe side effects as well. Probably only appropriate for people who have failed other medications that have a better side effect profile.
As noted above, meds like this can be considered for passengers, but I would have major reservations using them for people who have a serious role to serve on the boat because of the sedation.
Hypnotism can definitely work for the anxiety component. Takes a certain kind of person to be amenable to it and it typically takes a significant time commitment to learn. But as Moana says, there isn't a lot of downside to it.

[JPA Cate]

One can be taught to hypnotize one's self, and to go to sleep on command and wake up the same way, even feeling refreshed, and after a 20 min. nap. In Spain, where Roque lives, he would seek out a psychologist who has specialty training in hypnosis.

Ann

[Papasail]

Stop caring, and be brutal about it.

*Here is something (that happened to me in Hawaii) that changed everything for me. We were sailing on a big catamaran/ big surges & waves, and (REALLY realizing this) changed my perspective on sea sickness completely…

*think this through…

Here I am sailing, folks are heaving, and suddenly, I realized something; we were sailing upside down…

*seriously, think this through…

We were on a sailboat, on a round ball (the earth), sailing upside down.

*Why aren’t we falling off?

yeah, yeah, yeah…. gravity/ got it.

BUT…

The water wasn’t falling off either.

Sometimes our fear of the ocean is wrapped up in the boat toppling, sinking, and with the waves, it all (((feels))) out of control. But the water. isn’t. falling. off. And neither is the boat.

~ AND IT NEVER WILL ~

This thought gets a little wierd, because on this ball (the earth), we are ~ Always ~ sailing upside down. In fact…. we are NEVER right side up. Never.

So if we are not falling off, and the water is not falling off…
from an interesting perspective, our fears are completely irrational. They are sort of “earth based” fears. But when you look at the BIG picture…. sea movement is quite stable, and (you), or (it), won’t fall off…. even if your (earth-based) mind thinks so.

So if it can’t fall off…. “sea-sickness” doesn’t really matter.

We are, therefore, WAY more stable than our minds would have us believe.

Changing your perspective (literally), can help you see that even while sailing upside down… we’re perfectly safe.

Scopolamine ear patches used to be highly beneficial for sea sickness. Learn how you can increase your own scopolamine levels, or see if you can still find the ear patches.

Alter your perspective/ alter your life…

🤸🏽*♂️B

[MattG]

Originally Posted by Jack Lahr

Transderm scampolomine —a prescription patch with 3 day effectiveness works! Talk to your doctor about this?

OMG NO! Anyone who has had anxiety issues should not touch scopolomine with a 10 ft pole. The withdrawals can be BRUTAL. Ask me. Its awful. Stay away.

[Moana Bella]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Phenergan is promethazine, a serious drug. Prescription only and you might have some challenges finding a doc to prescribe it to you. It can definitely be effective for the nausea associated with motion sickness. To give you an idea of its potency, it is used to treat nausea associated with cancer chemotherapy drugs. You have to be careful with it as it has significant sedation as a common side effect. Insomnia is an indication for this drug - that tells you how common sedation is. It has less common but more severe side effects as well. Probably only appropriate for people who have failed other medications that have a better side effect profile.
As noted above, meds like this can be considered for passengers, but I would have major reservations using them for people who have a serious role to serve on the boat because of the sedation.
Hypnotism can definitely work for the anxiety component. Takes a certain kind of person to be amenable to it and it typically takes a significant time commitment to learn. But as Moana says, there isn't a lot of downside to it.

I think we may be talking about different strengths or possibly variants of Phenergan. Australia is a pretty strict country, but we can get 2 strengths of adult Phenergan across the counter in a pharmacy - without prescription.
And even child Phenergan is very popular for its sedative effect. Actually I always had it on hand for my son who has a serious nut allergy.

Drowsiness is definitely an issue - but a plus for someone on board that is laid up with seasickness anyway. Of course, not suitable if the person is in charge of the boat at the time. But serious seasickness tends to count them out if there are any alternatives on board.

[Electra]

I can give you my experience and hope it helps. I have suffered motion sickness for years now.I have had every medical test possible in hopes to establish a reason and then a resolution as I love sailing.After years of trying every possible solution to stop the sea sickness, which by the way causes anxiety in me because we are then one crew member down, I have come up with a new plan.I can sail in harbours, lakes, SMALL trips from island to island etc. on calm waters for maybe a MAXIMUM of 5 or 6 hours on sea sickness tablets . I still feel nauseous, but I can cope.No ocean crossings.Sleeping on boats only in very still, calm waters and even that can be a challenge.My dream of cruising has been shattered, but I focus on what I can do and make it work.I bought a small 27 foot sailboat and then I can stay within my boundaries.I don't crew for anyone anymore as I can't predict if I'm going to have issues with my sea sickness.I am very happy now with changing my dream into something I can cope with. I hope you find your balance as sea sickness is a game changer.Cheers

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Electra

I can give you my experience and hope it helps. I have suffered motion sickness for years now.I have had every medical test possible in hopes to establish a reason and then a resolution as I love sailing.After years of trying every possible solution to stop the sea sickness, which by the way causes anxiety in me because we are then one crew member down, I have come up with a new plan.I can sail in harbours, lakes, SMALL trips from island to island etc. on calm waters for maybe a MAXIMUM of 5 or 6 hours on sea sickness tablets . I still feel nauseous, but I can cope.No ocean crossings.Sleeping on boats only in very still, calm waters and even that can be a challenge.My dream of cruising has been shattered, but I focus on what I can do and make it work.I bought a small 27 foot sailboat and then I can stay within my boundaries.I don't crew for anyone anymore as I can't predict if I'm going to have issues with my sea sickness.I am very happy now with changing my dream into something I can cope with. I hope you find your balance as sea sickness is a game changer.Cheers

Let me be the first to welcome you to CF! Keep at it - your approach has a good chance of working in the long term!
Here's a question for any Navy veterans on CF - how does the Navy handle folks with persistent motion sickness? Do they just tough it out? Is it ever so intractable that folks are discharged for it or get a desk assignment ashore?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Here's a question for any Navy veterans on CF - how does the Navy handle folks with persistent motion sickness? Do they just tough it out? Is it ever so intractable that folks are discharged for it or get a desk assignment ashore?

For most sailors, it's a matter of working out how to cope. They learn what techniques or medications work and do that. The ones that can't cope either quit or change trades - in Canada, the Forces are combined, so it's possible to go from a hard sea trade to army or air force. Our Air Force runs a "spin and puke" programme, to "treat" persistent airsickness in student pilots. The aim of it isn't to cure motion sickness, but give the sufferers a better awareness of the incipient stages, and coping strategies. The pilots who don't "pass" don't get their wings. I know of one Naval officer who was sent on this programme, but ended up leaving the Navy.

[JBP]

Originally Posted by northwestsailor

Hi. After trying EVERYTHING (except the patch - I didn’t want to use prescription drugs) Monique from the YouTube channel Drake Paragon turned me on to the over-the-counter seasickness pills made and sold only in the Faroe Islands. THEY WORK!!!! They are called Koffinautin and are 50 mg koffein (caffeine) and 50 mg diphenhydraminhydroclorid. You can write to the pharmacy in Torshavn at Tjaldur@apotek.fo and order them. Can’t recommend them highly enough. Didn’t feel speedy or tired from them. If you are single handing try them before you sail to see how they affect you.

Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride is commonly known in the US as Benadryl.