Full electronics upgrade - B&G, Raymarine or Garmin?

[kaz911]

So we have bought a 1998 50' sailboat with full Raymarine Electronics suite. (C140W's/MasterView/SPX30) - most of the Masterview LCD's are dead etc. so we are planning to do a full electronics upgrade.

But what would you choose?

Garmin: Overall ok - but anything bar the new 9000 series is a bit outdated. But the 9000 series is too much. (xx3 series is > 3 years old)

B&G - Again same as above - Zeus 3S is almost 4 years old and development is a bit stale ATM (IMHO). Zeus S (android) is just too limited.

Raymarine - seems to be charging ahead for the first time in 20 years with new sailboat products and updated displays. (Axiom 2, Alpha Displays, RSW Wind sensor etc). On the negative it is Android based - on an old (seemingly) Linux kernel (3.1)

I have NEVER been a Raymarine fan and had preference for B&G/Garmin. But right now I'm kind of re-evaluating my preferences.

What would you choose?

[s/v Jedi]

For a good system, you will buy multiple brands:

Autopilot, displays, radar: B&G
Plotter: B&G Vulcan or touch-only Zeus and iPad, laptop
Depth: Airmar Smart DST
Wind: LCJ Capteurs ultrasonic
Radio: Standard Horizon
AIS: em-trak SOTDMA
Gateways: YachtDevices

There’s a couple reasons: the B&G autopilot is a direct descendant from the legendary Robertson Autopilot and they have a great wireless remote. B&G has the best software for sailboats. Their radar is as good as the others.

[Jimbo2010]

Have an Axiom+ was going to buy the Ray Radar, why do you think the HALO20 Radar is better?

Also it interface with Axiom, I think it can but not sure

[AnsleyS]

We had the same question a few years ago and after researching all the systems decided on Garmin. Garmin is the big kid on the block and their system works well together. I disagree with the opinion stated to mix and match items from different sources. With our system firmware updates for all the components are done easily with the Active Captain app. Even the charts are updated by the app.

[SailingHarmonie]

I have the benefit of using many brands on instruments on deliveries. For a passage making sailboat, I would chose B&G, for functionality and user interface==but with a big caveat.

As recently as 3 or 4 years ago Navico had the best technical service anywhere. That has now totally collapsed. They do not respond to emails, and getting a tech on the phone is very close to impossible. To me, that does not show a commitment of the parent company to the business. I hate to see it, but they are killing themselves.

Even though I like the product, I am finding it very hard to recommend.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Jimbo2010

Have an Axiom+ was going to buy the Ray Radar, why do you think the HALO20 Radar is better?

Also it interface with Axiom, I think it can but not sure

I wrote “as good as”, not “better”

[SV Confianza]

I also might disagree with mixing and matching. It’s kind of nice to be in one ecosystem for things like firmware updates and full feature compatibility. But, like everything, it’s a trade off. So both sides make sense.

We happen to be all raymarine, but I also appreciate the Garmin and b&g setups on friends boats. I have been playing with the augmented reality features that are unique to raymarine. Not a game changer, but it’s fun =).

[SV Confianza]

Also should mention that the raymarine autopilot is quite good. Does a great job anticipating. Was able to steer without intervention while running from 20+ft waves off hatteras for 8 hours (in performance mode). The waves had enough force to bend our tie rod ends, but the autopilot kept up with them nicely (better than I could in fact)

[Kd9truck]

I have Ray and I like it, I crew (for pleasure) on blue water passages around, up and down the east coast USA, 9/10 cruisers are using Ray in my experiences (not a scientific pole or a searchable fact). This limits my ability to give you a comparison but it may raise the concept that regional preference might be a factor you have not considered.
I am not a tech person I have Ray everything and it works well, I am a guy who builds high angle safety systems, houses, dodgers, Biminis, sailbags, lazy Jack systems etc, but not tech. I use Navinics and find the two do the things I need them to. I can get a Ray authorized tech to my boat if needed but can’t imagine Garmen or B&G authorized without making passage to access one. (Regional preference).

Cheers

[sv_pelagia]

In the process of replacing chartplotter and radar...



Almost certainly will continue with Furuno, specifically FurunoTZT3 system and DRS2DNXT doppler radar


Furuno has been great answering questions... their online forum a great help... plus their technical help dept has replied quickly to my questions.



To be continued...

[Madehn]

When faced with the same question early in the year I did a ton of research and went with Raymarine for everything except the autopilot and AIS. I have not added the ais yet and will pick that unit based on price when time comes. I already have two autopilots a sitek and a CPT neither of which is interfaced with the chart system. I had twin Garmin units in my plane and loved them BUT their support for units over three years old appears to be nonexistent. They are a big dog in the aviation world but a porch puppy in the marine environment JMHO. Raymarine has been simple to set up and network myself after watching some YouTube videos. By buying from all one vendor I was also able to negotiate about a 3k discount by price comparing online etc. also I looked at parts availability etc for my area of extended cruising and they came out as good or better than anyone else. All said and done they were the best overall choice for me. Best of luck in your choices

[Madehn]

From another timely thread.

“The real worry I have is if I ever need to reach B&G for a more substantial problem. The rest of my gear is Furuno and they pick up on the first ring and pass you to a technician who knows what they're talking about. This B&G "customer service" experience not only fails to approach that but it's several more layers of bad. It is telling that no one so far has apparently been able to reach a person there, good for anyone contemplating a switch to B&G to know.”
This guy was in the Bahamas trying to get help with a simple installation question.

[Tugwit]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I have the benefit of using many brands on instruments on deliveries. For a passage making sailboat, I would chose B&G, for functionality and user interface==but with a big caveat.

As recently as 3 or 4 years ago Navico had the best technical service anywhere. That has now totally collapsed. They do not respond to emails, and getting a tech on the phone is very close to impossible. To me, that does not show a commitment of the parent company to the business. I hate to see it, but they are killing themselves.

Even though I like the product, I am finding it very hard to recommend.

+1 Agreed. After spending four hours on hold last spring to deal with an issue on a newly-installed Triton2 instrument, someone finally answered, only to put me on hold again for two hours and then hung-up on me. There is effectively ZERO end-user customer support; I don't know how professional installers fare.

I have a multi-vendor system and find Furuno products and support to be excellent, although, to be sure, I've only had to use its tech support once.

See also https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3855816

[s/v Jedi]

The wish to stay with one brand is a bit useless because they will give you an Airmar transducer anyway and their radios are really not so good nor is their AIS.

But that doesn’t matter, you can do whatever you wish

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I have the benefit of using many brands on instruments on deliveries. For a passage making sailboat, I would chose B&G, for functionality and user interface==but with a big caveat.

As recently as 3 or 4 years ago Navico had the best technical service anywhere. That has now totally collapsed. They do not respond to emails, and getting a tech on the phone is very close to impossible. To me, that does not show a commitment of the parent company to the business. I hate to see it, but they are killing themselves.

Even though I like the product, I am finding it very hard to recommend.

I think Navico/B&G/Simrad/Lowrance are still finding their feet after being "absorbed" into the new Navico Megacorp (Anchor, attwood, Bep, Blue Sea, CZone, C-Map, FATHOM, Lenco, Marinco, Mastervolt, MotorGuide, Progressive Industries, ProMariner, Reli3on & Whale)

It can take years to get a fusion of brands to work well.

The other "ideological" issue was Garmin's purchase of Navionics. That has produced a "war like" aggression between the brands. Zeus S was one of the outcomes with support for CMAP charts only.

But now we have 3 mega corp's. Garmin, Navico, and TeledyneFlir (Raymarine)

All 3 big boys are "sh*tting" on standards like NMEA.

Garmin just introduced "BlueNet Ethernet" - a 9 pin variant of 8 pin M12 OneNet. To interface with normal RJ45 Ethernet you need a BlueNet Gateway ($350). At least Garmin selected M12 connectors which you can field install. Garmin uses standards NMEA 2000 connectors. Garmin's own current field install kit seems to be RJ45 and then an adaptor cable (RJ45->BlueNet)?

Raymarine got RayNet - with RayNet expensive switches, connectors and expensive cables. And no possibility of field installable connectors. But at least most modern Raymarine devices come with N2k standard connect-ability in the box. (Axiom 7+ has N2k on the plug with a SeatalkNG adaptor in the box - there are no ? SeatalkNG field installable connectors?)

Navico uses the Yellow "Ethernet" 5 pin connector. But that is limited to 100Mbps and no POE. So I guess we will see a new Ethernet connector from Navico this year. One can hope it is M12 X-Coded so it is compatible with OneNet.

OneNet specifies either RJ45 or M12 X-Coded 8 pin as "standards" for ethernet connection. M12 X-Coded is good up to 10Gbps so 10x of Raynet and 100x Navico yellow ethernet.

Both Garmin and Navico(B&G) current mid to high end 9-16" offerings are very old. So one can hope for a "Spring Release" of new ranges - like Garmin xx4 and B&G Zeus 4. (Zeus 3S was a minor upgrade to Zeus 3 - same basic HW just different "processor board" )

There is some support for NMEA OneNet ethernet- but most is from the "smaller guys"

But in short - the Marine "Mega-corp's" are not doing any of us any favours. They are splitting standards further apart. And each of them had representative's on the NMEA standards boards like N2k and OneNet - and they are not very eager to use the standards.

NMEA has failed completely as an organisation (IMHO)